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  #16  
Old 05-10-2009, 06:49 PM
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I pried mine out with a thin bladed screwdriver. I don't recall issues with the line between the master cylinder reservoir and the clutch MC.

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  #17  
Old 05-10-2009, 07:37 PM
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The whole operation went fine. No problems getting the old one out or the new one in. I prefer this to crawling under the car to do the slave

I ended up just putting a towel over that fitting to protect it and pulling really hard with a pliers.

However, after bleeding, the clutch still doesn't work
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  #18  
Old 05-10-2009, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
However, after bleeding, the clutch still doesn't work
It never does. Someone recently reported that using a pump-type oil can worked. m I am going to give that a shot if I ever have to do that again. Consult the FSM....
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2009, 09:33 PM
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I used the FSM method first (brake caliper bleeder to clutch slave bleeder, pump and crack).

That didn't work so I used a pressure bleeder on the clutch slave, trying to bleed bottom up. It didn't seem that the fluid was going anywhere - the reservoir wasn't getting any fuller.

That didn't work, so then I tried putting the pressure bleeder on the top reservoir and pumping the clutch (with the slave bleeder closed). At this point I was just making things up, but I did see bubbles coming up whenever I pumped the clutch so I kept doing that for a while.

That didn't work, so I tried bleeding from top down (opened the slave bleeder with the pressure bleeder on the reservoir). Some bubbly fluid did come out the bottom and then a clean stream.

That didn't work so I came in and went on the computer to see what you guys were talking about

The strange thing is that it does not seem like fluid goes in when I bleed from bottom up - whether it is with the FSM method, or with the pressure bleeder. But if I pressure bleed from top down, fluid does come out. That drives me crazy and makes no sense to me.
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  #20  
Old 05-10-2009, 11:13 PM
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Pressure bleeding with the brake caliper technique always worked well for me. The fluid reservoir level should go down as you pump the brake pedal.
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  #21  
Old 05-11-2009, 06:30 AM
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The fluid reservoir level should go down as you pump the brake pedal.
No, I don't think so as all you are doing is recycling brake fluid from the caliper back thru the clutch hydraulics back into the reservior. Except that there will be some leakage and some left in the hose....
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
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  #22  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:16 AM
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Perfect timeing of this thread. My 82 240D needs a clutch MC and I am dreading the job. I am not as flexible as I used to be, plus I do not have an assitant to help me bleed the air out. Most likely I will take it to a shop.
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  #23  
Old 05-11-2009, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
No, I don't think so as all you are doing is recycling brake fluid from the caliper back thru the clutch hydraulics back into the reservior. Except that there will be some leakage and some left in the hose....

The volume of air in the line is replaced by brake fluid. It's likely not a great amount, but there is no way the fluid level is going to stay the same. 3 feet of line is going to consume some brake fluid as well. So, if you're not seeing the fluid level drop a little and bubbles coming up from below, you're not doing it right.
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  #24  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by yellowbenz View Post
The volume of air in the line is replaced by brake fluid. It's likely not a great amount, but there is no way the fluid level is going to stay the same. 3 feet of line is going to consume some brake fluid as well. So, if you're not seeing the fluid level drop a little and bubbles coming up from below, you're not doing it right.
I definitely was seeing some fluid loss when doing the brake->clutch slave bleed method, but some was leaking down from the bleeder valve threads on both the caliper and the slave. I tried putting some tape around the threads on the slave bleeder and putting the bleeder valve back in, but the tape just fell off.

One thing I noticed was that the clutch slave or the clutch hydraulic system in general was holding some pressure for sure. I would get it pumped up from the breaks and close off the valve, and when I opened it, I could feel pressure backing back out. That didn't seem right to me - if the pedal isn't pressed in, I would think the pressure should be alleviated up through the reservoir.
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  #25  
Old 05-12-2009, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chetwesley View Post
I used the FSM method first (brake caliper bleeder to clutch slave bleeder, pump and crack).

That didn't work so I used a pressure bleeder on the clutch slave, trying to bleed bottom up. It didn't seem that the fluid was going anywhere - the reservoir wasn't getting any fuller.

That didn't work, so then I tried putting the pressure bleeder on the top reservoir and pumping the clutch (with the slave bleeder closed). At this point I was just making things up, but I did see bubbles coming up whenever I pumped the clutch so I kept doing that for a while.

That didn't work, so I tried bleeding from top down (opened the slave bleeder with the pressure bleeder on the reservoir). Some bubbly fluid did come out the bottom and then a clean stream.

That didn't work so I came in and went on the computer to see what you guys were talking about

The strange thing is that it does not seem like fluid goes in when I bleed from bottom up - whether it is with the FSM method, or with the pressure bleeder. But if I pressure bleed from top down, fluid does come out. That drives me crazy and makes no sense to me.
This is almost a carbon copy of what I did. You are right, it makes no sense.
I did have my wife pump the peddle, and I would open and close the slave nipple. this is what we were doing when it decided to work.

I have no ides why the brake nipple and the slave nipple can`t be the same size. I used something like 1/4 in clear line on the brake nipple with a small hose clamp. I used some smaller size for the slave nipple, and attached the 2 lines together with 2 brass hose barb fitting. one male and one female. 1/4 in and 1/8 in.

I now have about 2800 miles on it sense 4-10. I did have some small amount of slack in the clutch peddle before the MC had pressure against the release bearing. now it is tight. I tried to turn the ecentric at the top of the rod (pita job to do) on the MC. so far no treasure .

Charlie
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there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works
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  #26  
Old 05-12-2009, 11:18 PM
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I see references to pumping the pedal and cracking open and closing the bleeder valves like one would do when bleeding the brakes. However, this isn't necessary for this procedure in my opinion and from reading the technique per the various sources. You open both bleeder valves and pump the brake pedal until the bubbles stop. Then close the bleeders and you are done. It is a positive pressure bleeding of the clutch circuit and as long as the reservoir is full you won't suck any air back into the system. Maybe this is why this procedure fails for some?
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  #27  
Old 05-13-2009, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by yellowbenz View Post
I see references to pumping the pedal and cracking open and closing the bleeder valves like one would do when bleeding the brakes. However, this isn't necessary for this procedure in my opinion and from reading the technique per the various sources. You open both bleeder valves and pump the brake pedal until the bubbles stop. Then close the bleeders and you are done. It is a positive pressure bleeding of the clutch circuit and as long as the reservoir is full you won't suck any air back into the system. Maybe this is why this procedure fails for some?
What do you mean by until the bubbles stop? Where do you see the bubbles? In the top reservoir?

I want to note also that I have tried this method - not closing off the bleeders (on a different occasion), but I must have had air leaking around the threads on one or both, because after I tried pumping for a while, I looked under the car and I could see a lot of bubbles in the clear line between the caliper and the slave when I did it.

I am becoming an encyclopedia of failed bleeding techniques
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Sold but fondly remembered: 1981 300TD Turbo Tan 235K miles, 1983 300SD Astral Silver 224K miles

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  #28  
Old 05-13-2009, 03:13 PM
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I only opened and closed the bleeder with wife pumping, as a last resort.

I did the FSM way, but as Chet said, it leaked, and I figured I was sucking in air around the leaky threads.

I talked to GAVINLESLIE, and he just gravity bled his 78CD. I tried this to no avail.

I talked to my Indy, and he pressure bleeds from the bottom up with good results. just keep an eye on the brake reservoir that it doesn`t over flow.

Yes, the bubbles would be coming into the brake reservoir. just hard to see doing it by your self.

Charlie
__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works
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  #29  
Old 05-13-2009, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by charmalu View Post
I only opened and closed the bleeder with wife pumping, as a last resort.

I did the FSM way, but as Chet said, it leaked, and I figured I was sucking in air around the leaky threads.

I talked to GAVINLESLIE, and he just gravity bled his 78CD. I tried this to no avail.

I talked to my Indy, and he pressure bleeds from the bottom up with good results. just keep an eye on the brake reservoir that it doesn`t over flow.

Yes, the bubbles would be coming into the brake reservoir. just hard to see doing it by your self.

Charlie
Do you think for any reason that I would have better luck bleeding from the bottom up if the clutch pedal was pushed in? I am just trying to think of why fluid doesn't seem to go anywhere when bleeding bottom up.

Also, I wonder what level of pressure your indy uses and if the breaks provide more or less pressure than my pressure bleeder does. I think I had it up to about 25PSI and the fluid wasn't going anywhere.

Does anyone reading this have an explanation for why the fluid would come out when I apply pressure from the top down, but not from bottom up? Is there anything in the clutch hydraulic system that would act like a check valve?
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1979 240D w/4 Speed Manual, Light Blue Estimated 225-275K Miles - "Lil' Chugs"
Sold but fondly remembered: 1981 300TD Turbo Tan 235K miles, 1983 300SD Astral Silver 224K miles

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  #30  
Old 05-13-2009, 07:17 PM
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Don't push on the clutch with the bleeders open. You'll blow the soft line off the fittings and dump a huge amount of brake fluid on the floor. Don't ask me how I know. Maybe the bleeder on the slave is corroded or blocking the flow of brake fluid?

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