Question for W123 Greasecar users - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dieseldan44 · #76 02-25-2009, 09:52 PM

pizzachef,

Thanks for the heads up on the mods to the frybrid kit. I'm going to mosey over to the frybrid forum and dig in. I want to know the kit inside and out by the time it shows up on my door step.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pizzachef

Now you have to put together a bill of materials for the filtering setup

After building a waterless GL biodiesel processor, I am definitely going for a cold (or gently heated)-upflow scheme as discussed by Ron and John Galt on the web. Less is more, at least to start with. No centrifuges here :-)

dd

moon161 · #77 02-26-2009, 12:01 AM

6 Port valves are a no-no. You are unable to delay the return switching, so the fuel in the common section always cross contaminates - diesel into VO tank (not bad) VO into diesel tank (bad).

kenstfelix · #78 02-26-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobetta

what is your geographic locale?

are you interested in learning more about your car and knowing its veggy system inside out? then build your own.

i'm in philadelphia. i would like to learn about the car while doing this, but don't want to be totally out on a limb and clueless when something goes wrong.

biopete · #79 02-26-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldan44

First of all thank you to everyone, I have learned a lot during this thread. I dont mean for this post in any way to close it out...

After evaluating all the options, pricing out DIY components etc, I went with the Frybrid system. I placed my order a few days ago, and am prepared to wait. I have plenty of prep work to do in the meantime.

Here's my figuring from my research, hopefully it will help someone make their own decision:

DIY of a two-tank system capable of running in New England latitudes for 100k miles:

- $300 for custom aluminum baffled tank, 20 gallon trapezoidal to fit behind my stock tank and keep the spare tire accessible
- $70 for FPHE (flat plate heat exchanger - needed for extra heat) from ebay
- $100 for HIH (hose in hose) to front of engine bay and for return with aluminum fuel lines
- $150-200 for commercial heated filter depending on source
(can be done for less DIY using a 617 vehicle filter and electric or coolant heat through a copper coil, but fabrication req'd)
- $150-250 for valves depending on how you go (Greasecar and Frybrid both offer them separately, can be done for less by using Pollack 6 port valves from McMaster-Carr)
- $200 for something like a HotFox fuel pickup, much less if you do the greasecar style copper coil-in-tank type of thing
- $100 for gauges, electrical, switches temp sender, fuel level sender
- $150 for plumbing fittings, coolant hoses, hose clamps, misc hardware
- $50 of unaccounted for experimentation cost that always comes up DIYing
- 100 hours of my labor to fab/install, order right parts. I work slow and its winter :-)
- DIY satisfaction, but also higher degree of risk of snafu's since it is after all DIY

Total: ~$1400 for the best version using commercial components and custom tank, ~$600-700 using plastic tank, DIY filter assembly, DIY in-tank coil, stock valves from McMaster-Carr. Maybe even cheaper if you can scrounge some of the parts.

Frybrid:

- $2000 to my door with 21 gallon tank. Included everything above, plus:
- no DIY satisfaction, but high reliability, warranty coverage
- probably 20-25 hours of hopefully easy install labor from what i can tell
- also get micro-controller for automated switchover and purge alarm

-dd

Not a bad choice. That veggie system costs 10 times more than my car

Frybrid is still a DIY kit -- it is just Chris Goodwin's

You will have plenty of DIY satisfaction on the install i think. It will be just like the diy kit you priced above except you did not have to chase down all the parts. It is very satisfying having a kit with everything in it right down to the last hose clamp and you can learn a lot that way with minimal frustration at trying to find the right hardware and you can get up and running faster. Once you see the hardware, and know what you need and have installed one, it is much easier to try to source the parts yourself and engineer your own systems.

One thing two tank system manufaturers seem to neglect is the need to check the injectors. Clogged injectors are the cause of engine failure on wvo and it is easy to prevent. New nozzles are pretty cheap too unless you go with bosio like i did then they are 250.00 . While you are waiting on that kit i would pull the injectors and have them pop tested somewhere to make sure they are ok. Or send them to someone on the forum that does injectors. It should be under 300.00 with new nozzles. I like to just replace the nozzles before switching to wvo. It saves some worry. If there is a little white band around the outside of the nozzle then -- that is the MB Remufactured injector band. Maybe that has a recent date on it. Good luck.

biopete · #80 02-26-2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Last time I looked at Elsbett's site, their one tank system required the use 100% virgin Rapeseed oil. If you use WVO all bets are off. Even with Rapeseed oil, blending is still necessary below certain temps. Rapeseed oil is not available in the US as far as I know. What are you burning in your single tank?

We use a mix of rapeseed and soy. Elsbett says that because they offer a warranty for your engine and also their is a vegetable oil fuel standard there which we do not have. Canola they say does not coke injectors like soy does according to studies. But it is hard to find that here. They know americans are using waste soy oil more often then not. We are the guinea pigs for them.

There is nothing special about the elsbett system that would make it not work as good as some other single tank system on soy oil. They just have one small fphe for the heater , no heated fuel line or anything, but it heats well. The fuel filter heat shuts off when coolant is up to temp as a fire precaution. To keep from burning cold wvo, they make your glow plugs after glow longer and your preglow light stay on longer so you preglow longer. Very elegant and simple.

Glow plugs, the most untapped wvo heat source.

biopete · #81 02-26-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD8CDH

I usually drive a vehicle until the wheels fall off or the body rusts off. I have seen vehicles scraped after only a few years of WVO usage but I suspect that improper de-watering was the problem.

The info about dropping the two tank for the W123 came from a phone call to Elsbett.

I think fatty oil is a way of life these days. I look at long term cost in terms of both money and time. It would take me considerable more time to remove the fat from the oil and more money in diesel fuel and more frequent oil changes to go back to single tank. (yes, in the past 30 years, I have run both single and two tank) And, I want my car to start at any time or temperature a regular car can start.

Cool. I like to drive em a long time too. What i do not want is to only get 100,000 out of my engine when i could have gotten 200,000. Your system sounds cool. I think a lot of engines got killed by water too. Also clogged injectors not getting the attention they need. The injection shop pro says he sees mostly water damage in wvo pumps. I dewater really well.

My car is one of those lucky scores -- a whopping 250.00 for a really nice well maintained local nashville 1985 300D. My veg system costs 500.00 including new bosio nozzles. We'll see how it goes. I may be back on a two tank sometime. You can do some pretty cool engineering with those. One tank systems get pretty boring.