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View Poll Results: What would you spend on a diesel injection timing light?
$30 8 16.67%
$40 6 12.50%
$50 16 33.33%
$60 4 8.33%
$70 14 29.17%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 02-21-2009, 01:33 PM
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What would you spend on a Diesel injection timing light?

Please choose the MAXIMUM amount of money you would spend on a simple light that attached to your engine without any additional tools or wrenching.

Timing a running diesel with a mechanical pump is not exactly safe. But the tool could be used to determine your current setting. This would allow you to make adjustments, tighten up, then use the light again. You would need two people to even consider adjusting the pump on your running Mercedes Diesel.

The light will primarily be designed for the 61x engines, although it will take readings on most mechanically injected diesels.

Input is appreciated.

The IP timer has been mapped and measured, but there is missing information. If you have any info about the torque required to turn the IP, please contact me or post it here.


votes are hidden and the price INCLUDES SHIPPING. Please do not vote unless you have interest in the item or would find it beneficial

In addition, all information pertinent to using the light for the 61x series engines will be provided and backed by results from a series of comparative timing methods used in Mercedes independent shops.

*If you vote, and have an engine other than a 61x series, please leave the dimensions of your injector lines (circumference or outer diameter (mm))*
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2009, 02:38 PM
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If all I had to do is hook up a couple wires, I might spend a few bucks. The bubble timing method serves me just fine but it takes a few minutes to set up.
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2009, 03:54 PM
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A timing light would be almost invaluable to those who use alternative fuels. One of the problems we face is the ability to set timging to match the burn characteristic of the fuel.

The most invaluable tool we need is a way to measure the effeciency of the combustion. With this thennnn we can dick with the timing to maximize it. Then we can estabilsh what that new timing is with a timing light. Then others can compare our results with theirs with some degree of comparabilty by setting their timing to the same we have ours etc etc..
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  #4  
Old 02-21-2009, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachgeo View Post
the topic is who would buy a timing light and not which other method is bettor or worse.

Please respect the orginal posters questions by staying on topic.

I think if someones has said the prefer the Drip Method or the bubble method they are saying they would not buy a timing light at all.

I have to say I would not want to buy one either. Not because it would not be handy but because (from what I read) you have to create your own specs for the use of them.

You have first have to time your IP using one of the Factory Type timing methods. After that you hook up you timing light and see what degree the light flashes on (with the Engine running).
That will be your spec for the next time you time.
And, when you are doing the above you have a Static Timing vs a Dynamic Timing (the timing lighs I have read about pick up the pulse/sock wave created by the hydraulic pressure going though the fuel lines). With static timing you have no pulse.

With Dynamic Timing the Engine is turning X amount of RPMs there is a chance that the timing is advanced.
I have no idea at what RPM the IP Timer advances the timing of the IP. But, if it does so within the range of the Idle Speed you would need to remember never to change your idle speed (and make sure you check it with an accurate Tach) as changing the Idle Speed would render the spec you created usless.

I am also not sure the spec you create could be used on a different vehicle either; even if it was the same make, model and Engine.
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  #5  
Old 02-21-2009, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I think if someones has said the prefer the Drip Method or the bubble method they are saying they would not buy a timing light at all.

I have to say I would not want to buy one either. Not because it would not be handy but because (from what I read) you have to create your own specs for the use of them.

You have first have to time your IP using one of the Factory Type timing methods. After that you hook up you timing light and see what degree the light flashes on (with the Engine running).
That will be your spec for the next time you time.
And, when you are doing the above you have a Static Timing vs a Dynamic Timing (the timing lighs I have read about pick up the pulse/sock wave created by the hydraulic pressure going though the fuel lines). With static timing you have no pulse.

With Dynamic Timing the Engine is turning X amount of RPMs there is a chance that the timing is advanced.
I have no idea at what RPM the IP Timer advances the timing of the IP. But, if it does so within the range of the Idle Speed you would need to remember never to change your idle speed (and make sure you check it with an accurate Tach) as changing the Idle Speed would render the spec you created usless.

I am also not sure the spec you create could be used on a different vehicle either; even if it was the same make, model and Engine.

no. All of that will be taken care of and related information provided according to factory specs. I have edited the main post. I need to know if the costs to build exceed the interest - details have been left out for the sake of simplicity and hair-splitting in such an early stage.
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  #6  
Old 02-21-2009, 10:02 PM
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I'd pay 50 bucks in a heartbeat. Maybe a little more if it comes with good instructions and is easy to use...

I haven't tried the drip method for 3 reasons

1) I don't have the drip tube - though I could easily make one if I wanted to cut up and otherwise perfectly good injector line.
2) My hand pump on my IP leaks like a sieve. The pump itself doesn't leak, but if you try to hand pump it fuel just pours out.
3) As I understand it you have to remove parts from the #1 IP port, and I'm not that comfortable taking parts off the IP without some guidance - as in someone who knows more about them than I do right there working with me (just for the first time).
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  #7  
Old 02-21-2009, 10:14 PM
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The instructions will be overwhelmingly thorough. Simple guidelines and parameters for personal adjustment will also be included.
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachgeo View Post
A timing light would be almost invaluable to those who use alternative fuels. One of the problems we face is the ability to set timging to match the burn characteristic of the fuel.

The most invaluable tool we need is a way to measure the effeciency of the combustion. With this thennnn we can dick with the timing to maximize it. Then we can estabilsh what that new timing is with a timing light. Then others can compare our results with theirs with some degree of comparabilty by setting their timing to the same we have ours etc etc..
A small computer that did the math for you based on time of ignition vs. injection would make this cost prohibitive. You might as well spend $200 on a nice model.

If there was a sensor that gave you information about ignition timing, would you be able to interpret your own data?

you would now have ignition and injection data.
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Old 02-22-2009, 01:18 PM
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I'd spend a few bucks if it were as simple to attach as a spark ignition timing light. I'd love to check the timing with the engine running without having to remove the air cleaner and air box to gain access to the timing port on the side of the IP. Given that assumption, I'll go vote for $50. If I had a shop and I thought I would do this more than a couple of times a year, I'd go as high as $150.
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  #10  
Old 02-22-2009, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
no. All of that will be taken care of and related information provided according to factory specs. I have edited the main post. I need to know if the costs to build exceed the interest - details have been left out for the sake of simplicity and hair-splitting in such an early stage.
You have my Best Wishes.

I believe the other units I have see are selling in around the $300-$450 range; if there is a market for them at that price someone would be a market for them at something below that price.
I know out here there are private School Bus contractors that have fleets of hundreds of Busses. If you can make something that would work interchangeably on the various makes and models I am sure the would be willing to pay a good price for them.
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  #11  
Old 02-22-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
You have my Best Wishes.
I share all of your concerns.
Quote:
I believe the other units I have see are selling in around the $300-$450 range; if there is a market for them at that price someone would be a market for them at something below that price.
I know out here there are private School Bus contractors that have fleets of hundreds of Busses. If you can make something that would work interchangeably on the various makes and models I am sure the would be willing to pay a good price for them.
I agree with this and your previous post completely. This unit is idealized as one that will offer a much, much simpler solution to those units. I cannot even hope to provide the same analytical response that they do.

As you mentioned applicability across makes / models, your previous post will stand for those. You will need a baseline for other models other than the 61x engines.

I am not re-inventing the wheel, just offering a simple solution to an important maintenance item that many seem to struggle with.
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  #12  
Old 02-24-2009, 12:16 PM
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I would pay around $50 for such a device - and to have one available for "rent" through the forum would be excellent too.
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  #13  
Old 02-24-2009, 01:57 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
Please choose the MAXIMUM amount of money you would spend on a simple light that attached to your engine without any additional tools or wrenching.
I assume you are building this unit.
I will want at least one.





Thank you..
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2009, 01:11 AM
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This thread has really become logic 1101.
Anyway, I would be interested , if applicable for my 300 SDL.
I am assuming it is a piezo detector - or no?
Seems like the ambiguity or lack of details leans toward patent secrecy.

I would like to know what the repeatability and accuracy would be ?
Is the thing measuring peak pulse amplitude , quantitizing and integrating
to derive a static value or is the value dynamic and over what time ?

I don't see how you can produce the thing with accurate A/D conversion,
stability (repeatability , thermal and time error, conversion error reduction, transducer coupling error, etc... ) - -No offense.

If it is the right design I would pay $100+.
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2009, 01:27 AM
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there is little it could be (fiscally) but piezo. Testing of the crystals and required circuitry is in the works. The clandestine nature of the thread is to avoid this type of nit-picking before I offer anything. I will not offer anything unless I, and other respectable members of the forum find the results worthy.
The shear altitude of 'discussion' that occurs about the various timing methods is evidence enough that a 'dumby-proof' solution would be well-received (considering the price of current units).
Please see my previous response to Diesel911.

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