Block Heaters
 

Hi All,
I purchased a 1983 300D a few months ago and love it. I believe it has always been in the Northeast yet it doesn't appear to have a block heater. I pulled the air cleaner off and also crawled underneath but all I saw was a hex key plug. It also looks like a real pain to get to!
So the question is..Has anyone had any experience with a "dipstick heater" or something similar? I am not sure if I want to pull the freeze plug out...unless I have to.
Thanks! Charles Markham
Housatonic, Ma
1983 300D
1983 240D
1987 190E

Since I'm in the same situation as Xander, I'll tag my question on to his....

What about the in line fuel heaters?

Same Boat but Not a Great Solution
 

Greetings Guys,

I've got a 300TD wagon without the block heater as well, maybe perhaps because it was originally from California. I did purchase a block heater for it and also attempted to remove the plug for it's installation. Trust me that freeze plug is in there and there is very little leverage without removing the manifold to make a difference to remove it. From several that have posted on this topic it will come out, but the manifold will have to be removed so a cheater bar can be used to increase your leverage. The whole idea during the Winter is to keep the engine warm as well as the oil and the block heater does a nice job of doing that. I don't think heating the fuel will do the trick when you're trying to drag the crankshaft through molasses on a cold engine. Others have tried using hose heaters but once again the water won't circulate through the engine. The best bet in my opinion is to remove the manifold, like I'm gonna do and install the proper block heater if your Winter is gonna be cold like mine.

Charles

Due to where you live, you probably dont need a block heater, although the one that screws into the block is very nice. It's a 600 watt unit. Dip stick heaters are a pain in the neck. Here in the arctic we use the block heaters, plus oil pan heaters, and sometime battery heaters. Now the type of oil pan heater I recommend is a flat pad type that is adhered to bottom of the oil pan with silicone sealant. They work excellent!!! Here in Alaska we know what works well. We also use them on the auto transmission pans. For the typical six quart system a 100 watt pad heater will do the job fine for both the engine and trans. No car up here leaves the dealership without both pan heaters and a block heater. Dont be tempted to put more than a 100 watts on. It is not neccessary unless you live in a windy area. They will not harm the oil in the pan in any way. A system here with a 600 watt block heater and 100 watt oil pan heater will start a can at 50 below quite well if the wind isn't blowing. The wind creates a whole different ball game. Up here these heaters are available at any auto parts store. If you have trouble finding them, let me know and I'll get you some more info on who makes them. They work well even on oil leaking engines. You will find the oil pan warm to the touch, but not so hot as to burn you . A little long winded of an answer, but I hope it helps you. Ron

Here is a site with reasonable prices
 

Here is a site with reasonable prices on the stick-on oil pan heaters.

oil pan heaters

Good web site showing the pan heaters and installation. It is amazing how this method will help your cold weather starting, and better yet, cut down on engine wear, cold start smoke, etc. Wont hardly notice it on the electric bill either.

I was gonna ask How do YOU know
 

...then I saw your address! BRRRRRRRRRR!!!

Thanks!:D

I just put a heater into my 78 300D. It can be done from the bottom with a lot of effort. Weld a 19MM bolt to a 3/4 inch nut (1 3/8 socket) Make sure you get really good penetration into the bolt. Insert the 19MM hex head into the plug and put a 3/4 drive ratchet with short extension on it. Run the rathchet handle between floor pan and steering linkages and give her hell. We had to put a 4 foot cheater bar to get it loose. The key is to be patient. I was scared to death to try to take the manifolds loose for fear of broken bolts. I have the "tool" we made if anyone needs it! Good luck.

I know......I'm dumb
 

RE: Block Heaters.........My car is stored at home in an insulated garage. I would anticipate no issues starting the car in the winter. My father ran this 300D for 10 years in northern NJ without the first issue starting. I pray I have the same experience.

My question is.....what about work. I don't have an extension cord long enough to reach my office and the car spends more time at work than it does at home.

I know......dumb.

JCd

JCD-Not sure why you're saying "dumb" but that's how I felt when my '77 300D wouldn't start when the ambient temp was below 22 deg F. Mine wasn't in the family long. The PO changed oil only every 8000 miles, so my compression was questionable.
I think that the glowplugs may be upgradeable but I'm not 100% sure.
My SD has started in 12 deg F weather, without a block heater. I do use Redline DFC additive in just about every tankful. On the coldest days, it might be a good idea to go out and start your car and drive it somewhere for lunch, or let it idle for while to let it warm up.
Last winter I found Agway 10W30 Super Diesel oil rated CH-4, and had no problems starting. Only found it so far at Agway places, but NNJ might have some; if not there is one just south of the Nazareth Racetrack in PA, if you ever come here for a race :)
Anyway, enjoy dieseling in the northeast, and hope fuel prices don't jump too much this year ...

Not to worry JCD
 

Greetings All,

Although my diesel is an '80 model it shouldn't matter a whole lot as long as you have fairly decent compression on your engine. She started up last year down to about 10 F without a block heater (wished I had one installed anyway) Once I got it started and warmed up and running there was no problem the rest of the day. Because of my job I end up running to the bank around 11 am and it doesn't in a lot of cases get started again until 10 pm that night when I leave. I think there must be enough residual heat in the engine block to keep the engine from fully cooling down in that time period. I did not experience any problems starting the beast later that evening. The mornings seemed to be a cross your fings and hope type of thing but am hoping to get the block heater installed before the snow flies.


Charles

I forgot, a good habit for fall: adjust valves. Makes cold starting much easier. Spring: change brake fluid. Another good idea is to read the portion of your owners' manual that covers cold starting, blending fuels, and lubricant ranges for various temperatures. The 77 may be different, but my 84 benefits from multiple glow cycles, and if I recall, floor it while cranking, and crank until it fires, up to 20 seconds. I could be remembering wrong, but that's how I got mine to start on an 8 deg day with 15W40 dino molasses and forgetting to plug it in the night before. Sure I could have jumped into my wife's gasoline Subaru, but I'm trying to only drive that on snowy days....

Block heaters are a pain in the butt to put in. My dad and I did it on the Jetta, it took us a full week to do. I'm sure it wouldn't take AS long on a MB cnsidering theres a little more space to work in but it'll still be hard.

Thank goodness my 300D starts the first time everytime, I just let the glow plugs run for at least 10 seconds longer then the glow plug light is on. In the winter I'll be plugging in the block heater (Car came from the only MB dealer in Wyoming :) ) in the mornings just to help it along.

;) ;) well Charles i have had 7 240's, 1 300sd, and just purchased a 95 300e diesel with 132k. every one of them hated anything below 20f at 10f i used to cross my fingers and pray. they all stayed out at night. i used all types of oils and magic potions and quess what they still caught cold. with the block heater summer like starts and a warm heater. this doesn't even cover engine wear from cold starts. and do you know where i live?? about 30 miles down river from you in deerfield. good luck

Hehe, I like the analogy "catching cold"... I'm (hopefully) getting over a nasty cold myself ... wondering if my car might get sick ... anyway, my SD broke its accelerator pedal last winter, as well as the self-cancelling mechanism for the turn signals. Also, my shoulder cracked the top part of the door panel during cornering before the interior warmed up.

Wondering now if any of this could have been avoided if I had used the block heater a lot more than I've been. Thinking about getting the plug ready for duty right now...I have a brand new 40' extension cord all ready to go. Shorter than the 100' cord I used last year, so I should get a tad bit more voltage to the coils :)

:) :)

Hi Robert Roe

ive only been on this forum a couple of days and it's great.

i can relate to the exact same experience.

i frequent the clarion pa. area and have had a cord sticking out the motel window many nights.

ricali

Hey Ricali, don't they have any outdoor outlets at your hotel? :)

I've been tempted a couple times to tap into various sources of "free" power, from lighting circuits, etc, etc. but these days this could get one arrested, or at least detained and questioned. "What do you mean your car has to be plugged in?" etc... still, a couple of Radio Shack heavy duty jumpers and a VOM would be all you'd need. Hot gloves optional...

The secret is?
 

Greetings,

Sorry I put a dim light on your experience with diesels, but the key to me has been a strong battery, cycling the glow plugs twice before attempting to start and continuing to crank the engine until it fires off, (generally less than 20 seconds of cranking) but the book says 60 seconds will not have an adverse affect on the starter. Generally if you don't get fire on the first round you'll run down the battery too much to start again, when it's cold out. I'd also ensure before we get into Winter that the battery is good, glow plugs all work and all filter have been changed.

Charles

you all crack me up! i, luckily don't have to worry about any of that stuff though, living in Florida and all. i think my car does actually have a block heater though, it has some sort of a power cord in the engine compartment, if she goes up to atlanta this thanksgiving we may need to find out if it works! depending on weather of course. Just out of curiosity, what do big diesel trucks(semi's) do in the winter to avoid getting stranded? many times where they put up for the night is far away from any a/c outlet!
R

A lot of those trucks that you see parked along highway on-ramps and in truck stops are left running overnight.

I live in lower NY and have started my car in 20 degree weather with only a few seconds of cranking (maybe 3 or 4) without ever touching the block heater (yes, it's never ever been used). I think you guys out there with similar weather and healthy cars probably also won't need that heater either. I say if it's not absolutely necessary, it's not worth the huge energy drain.

Alex

Block Heaters
 

The extra advantages of using a block heater when temperatures are below freezing or at least very cold are: (1) engine is warm and heavier oils 15W-X will lubricate quicker, (2) Heater/Defroster comes on at temperature, a whole lot quicker, making for creature comfort. Just my $.02! Roger

Yes, in really cold weather the warm oil makes a huge difference in cold start wear.

Have a great day,

Is the block heater supposed to make a noise when you plug it in? I plugged mine in the other day for the first time and heard a faint "hissing" noise. Just wondering.

Although my '75 300D had a block heater, I could not always plug it in on the coldest nights. I have been able to start my car up in the morning with the temperature as cold as -10 to -20 degrees (that's BELOW zero) farenheit!:cool:

That was WITHOUT the block heatet plugged in!:D

Although my '75 300D had a block heater, I could not always plug it in on the coldest nights. I have been able to start my car up in the morning with the temperature as cold as -10 to -20 degrees (that's BELOW zero) farenheit!:cool:

Is block heater necessary? Some other tricks...
 

'83 240D in suburban Maryland, where it sleeps outdoors on some very cold nights. One trick another owner showed me was to let the glow plugs heat up three times before trying to kick over the engine...this helps to vaporize/heat up the combustion chambers and give the car a head start. Also using good diesel fuel with a cetane rating of 50 or above helps, and one approach has been to add one gallon of regular gasoline to each tank fill up of diesel. Hope this helps.

300D 85' started @ -4degF last year, the coldest day of that year, without any help from heaters or a garage (which I have, but the 300D was demoted to an outside car). It was really COOLLDD and I wasn't sure if it would start. The first thing I noticed was that my clock was stopped; which made me think that it was a dead battery; and I later discovered that the clock was FROZEN. I think that says a lot about MB, as our other outside car, a gasoline powered Chrysler, couldn't. Ha Ha Ha.
To start it I just followed the owners manual recomendations: Let it glow for its 90sec and then floor it when(if) it cranks. Started right up with no problems, however I noticed that the starter speed and sound was different. I love MB batteries.

Dr. D

Engine longevity?
 

Many of the cold start suggestions list on this forum will help! However, they really should be used in an emergency. Only in situations, when the wear on your engine is less important than getting the ol' diesel started. My suggestion would be to plug it in (if you can) under all cold conditions . Roger's $.02

This is the first winter season I'm going to be using the block heater on my car. How long do you all plug it in for? Ten minutes? five minutes? all night? Thanks

Alex

block heater
 

Plug the block heater into a timer which is set to go on at about 3 to 4 hours before you typically leave in the morning.

A couple of years ago, I put a coolant heater into a volvo 240 that began giving me real trouble on cold mornings...there was no spot on the engine for a block heater, so I used one that fits into the lower radiator hose (you cut the hose and fit in the heater). I had my doubts about this since the heating element was in the hose, not in the block where most of the coolant is. I was pleasantly surprised at how well this heated the block.. This demonstrated a couple of things....water has a very high latent heat...absorbs a lot of heat...and metal as we know transfers heat very well....the combination of the two factors results in very effective heating of the engine by passive heat transfer, and convection currents of the coolant. Convection currents go right up the hose into the engine. For those who have MB diesels without block heaters...I would definitely recommend the MB type. But since it is a real pain to install, the coolant hose heater is a good alternative. Dont worry about excessive heat in the rad hose....think of how hot that hose gets in the summer right next to the engine....no coolant heater is going to exceed those temps!!! Those oil pan heaters look real neat too...Ive never heard of them before seeing in this string.

One thing I had really thought of doing, since the MB diesels have these plug-in block heaters was , that since you are bringing 120 volts to the car each night to heat the coolant, I was trying to figure out how to install a little electric air heater for the passenger compartment....that would be really neat...nice and warm, no scraping windows, no fog inside windows!!! Some of the little ceramic disc heaters have a low setting of about 750 watts....but they all say keep it at least 3 feet from combustible materials. These ceramic heaters are pretty safe, and many come with a thermal cutoff switch. Too bad they dont make a little 300 watt ceramic heater for this.. What keeps me from trying this is the vision of seeing the MBTex melted on one of the seats, or worse, seeing the inside all burnt up!!!

extension cord setup
 

Thought I might share what I did for extension cord for block heater for everyday use in my driveway (since I have no garage). Rather than carry a loose extension cord in the car, or have to take one out of the shed, in installed a permanent box containing an extension cord next to the driveway. I put a pressure treated post in the ground (about a foot from the house) and built a wooden box (about 8"x8"x16")with a door on the front and mounted on the post. Inside the box I put a junction box with GFI outlet. I ran power to the box using flexible plastic conduit from inside the cellar (drilled through sill, put conduit through, patched with putty). Inside the box, I put a large hook to hold the extension cord. I also installed a neon indicator light on exterior of box, so I know when it is live. To do this, I poked out one of the knockouts on the back of the junction box...this is were I drilled the hole through the wooden box to mount the indicator light on the outside, with wire connections inside the junction box. When I go out in the morning and see light on, I know timer went on. Inside the cellar, I attached power cord to timer.

This has proven to be VERY CONVENIENT, because the cord is always right there where I need it; when I unplug it I wind it up an stow in box. When in the box, it is protected from rain & snow. When I pull into the driveway, I just take out cord, plug in and forget it till morning. I used one of the blue extension cords that maintain their flexibility in the cold...works well.

Diesel power heater
 

I stumbled across a website that offered electronically controlled heaters that burn diesel fuel to keep your engine warm. The price is steep at $900 but for those of you who live in the great white north, you might be interested. They are Espar heater and are offered at this site http://www.lubespecialist.com/
RT

I believe that MB also made a diesel fuel powered auxilerary heater for the 300 series deisels. I know in my owners manual that there is a section on the opperation of the optional "auxilerary gas fired coolant heater" that is controlled by an on board clock/timer that can be used for preheating or extra heat in the very cold. Perhaps it was only offered on Euro models but it does/did exist. I bet their better than any aftermarke ones too. If your interested, I'd try calling your dealership. You'd be surprised what types of wild goose chases I made my dealer do; they havent yet failed me. I guess I'm just lucky.

Good luck,
Dr. D

I have had M-B diesels forever, and following is my experience short of installing the screw-in block heater: The basic problem is that aging diesels develop compression problems to greater or lesser degrees as time passes. One is trying to "work around" that basic problem.

Be certain the glow plugs are operating and the carbon crud in their orifices is cleaned out with a reamer. Be sure the injector spray pattern is correct on all injectors: properly atomized, not dribbling. Especially for winter, set the intake and exhaust valve adjustments next wider measurement than book specification: e.g if the intake spec is 10, set at 15; exhaust spec is 30, set at 35. Be sure battery remains fully charged as during the winter with short rides they can be severely drained and not fully recharged. Use the lowest viscocity multigrade oil designated for diesels you can find. Clean all battery and starter cables and connections as well as ground connections to assure full electrical contact with least resistance. When operating the preglow, ignore the amber light when it turns out; instead count to 90 as it will keep heating for that long. It will vary by car and driver, but I found it helpful to depress the accelerator pedal twice and hold it midway at time of initial starting attempt

how much electricity is used by block heater?
 

I have 82 300TD in NJ. Started using the block heater on a timer on some cold nights. Read on this thread that 2-3 hours ought to heat up block sufficiently. Wondering - what is it costing me to do so? Are these block heaters huge draws on electric power?

The forum knows all.

Thanks!

Cost for block heater power
 

Easy calculation for Block heater. If Block heater is rated at 100w, then your cost per kilowatt hour from your electric bill would give you your approximate cost for block heater at 10 hours of use. In Boise, that is 6.8 cents, therefore, the cost for 10 hours would be $.068. Questions? Roger

the math
 

Roger,

I think you may have had a typo. Is that $0.68 for ten hours?

Paul

I think I would use a timer
 

Greetings,

As several have already posted, there is no need to leave the block heater running all night. I think an hour or two prior to your departure would be sufficient to warm your engine unless it becomes sub-zero weather.


Charles

No Paul;
A Kilowatt_hour is defined as 1000watts per hour. Divide that by 100 watts and you get 10 hour. Therefore, 100watts for 10 hours is equal to ONE kilowatt hour. If the cost per KW/Hr is (in this example) 6.8 cents or $0.068 (mines closer to $0.0154 in PA; Nuclear power is great) and therefore the cost would be $0.068 and Roger is right.

However in the MB, I think someone said the OEM block heater is closer to 600watts. Therefore, if three hours is sufficient to heat up the engine, you consume 3*600watts or 1800watts. Now multiply that by {(1kilowatt hr)/ (1000watts)} and you get 1.8 kilowatt hours of power to use your heater for 3 hours. Now, if we use the given estimated cost of $.068 per KW/Hr, we can multiply them and ===> we get the final answer of $.1224, or ~12 cents as the actual cost for using the block heater for three hours if one KW/hr is $.068.

Remember the actual cost depends on your electricity caost in your area, and I know it would be about twice that here in Philadelphia, but I still think that the increased benefit of getting in a warm car and an easily started engine is worth the money. But remember, the cost will add up if you leave the heater on (by not using the timer) or use it daily.

Hope this clarifies things. Probally costs less than heating a garage.

Sincerely,
Dr. Adam T. L. Delecki

kilowatt tutorial
 

Only 12 cents - what a bargain!

Thanks for the tutorial!

Paul

Block Heater Wattage
 

Just checked with local Mercedes Benz parts guy and he read 500w from the heater which screwed into probably 85% of the cars. Hope this technical portion of Heater discussion is helpful? Roger

Rthomas,

The Espar heater you are referring to were/are very popular for air cooled engines that do not generate enough heat to pass along to the passenger compartment. They are also commonly installed on boats and tractor trailers to keep the interiors nice and warm. They work excellent and are well worth the money, but I think that heating air and relying on convection to warm your engine would not be as efficient as heating a fluid such as oil or antifeeze.

One other tidbit is that Espar's main competition in Germany is Webasto. They also make diesel-fueled air heaters. If you have a sunroof in your MB, you might be familiar with Webasto as they make most of the MB sunroofs.

Best regards,

GreyMarketSurvivor
 

GreyMarketSurvivor,
If you read the Espar literature the heater heats the coolant and uses a small electric water pump to circulate the warm coolant throughout the engine block. So it seems it does in fact heat the coolant and not the air.... I am not sure I have ever even heard of a heater such as you describe. RT

Cold weather coming here in MI...my first MB winter!

So far, no problems at 26 above. I'm going to try to see if the SD has the installed heater, or get one of the ones that stick onto the oil pan.

I bought the car to drive, as well as a hobby. I want to reduce the start up wear, as well as quicker starts.

Any tips/hints on checking for the original install? I've seen here that they are often installed, and just need to be wired.

I'll keep everyone posted on my progress!
LT

to Capt. Kirk
 

I hate to tell you this, and NO I'm not being a wise guy. A VW Jetta shouldn't take more than half an hour to put in a block heater. I'll give you a little secret (I also had a friend who called me one day after it took him almost 5 hours) The trick is this...REMOVE the passenger side drive axle FIRST. With this out of the way you have a lot of room to swing a 2lb hammer. Use a BIG punch and drive the plug in, grab it with a pair of channel lock and pull it out. install the heater, then put the axle back on. Don't forget to torque the axle nut to 176 ft. lbs. ( I know supposed to use a "new" nut) That is where the second trick comes in...put some anti-sieze on the nut and you will get about another 1/8 of a turn on the nut at the same torque setting, almost like having a new

I assume that was for me......

We did take out the axle, the sucker was just in there really well.

Even with the axle out it was a tough thing swinging a hammer in there. Also we were working nights and in the garage, which in it's self is hard :)

Understandable
 

I understand about being under a car in the dark! I guess the "correct" placement on the VW diesel is in the center hole, but I have bought Rabbits that had the heater in the one on the #1cyl. end hole as well. I was a glutton for punishment on those ones....I put a new plug in the "incorrect" hole and installed the heater in the center one.:) The other thing that I seem to like to do is wait until there is SNOW on the ground before I get around to doing it!

Thanks to the welded tool of A. Bonger, we did two 300 D's this past week. You can find him in the above entries to this post and he'll mail it to you.

One of us took off all the upper junk that was in the way (manifold, etc) and one of us did it the lower way.

I prefer the lower if you have a pit to work out of. Took off only one steering rod so as to have enough travel. Put a 5' cheater bar on and went flying when it finally gave.

Don