99 E300 Injector Problems ? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cessna5354 · #1 04-04-2009, 04:57 PM

Just changed fuel lines and delivery valve seals/O-rings. Stopped fuel leaks and the starting is much easier.

Now, I have some blk smoke at startup and nailing at idle. Once I accelerate and drive off the nailing stops.

Should I consider replacing the injectors (220K miles) ??

Where should I source the replacements ? I did not price the dealership costs, but am wary of aftermarkets.
I plan to do a diesel purge, but I do not think that will correct.

Your comments are welcome.

nhdoc · #2 04-04-2009, 05:27 PM

You might give it some time to let all of the air work its way out of the system. Even a perfect system will clatter a little at idle but shouldn't smoke.

I have a complete set of fully checked and balanced injectors for your car - PM me if you are interested and I can give you the details if you are interested in buying them.

Diesel911 · #3 04-04-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessna5354

Just changed fuel lines and delivery valve seals/O-rings. Stopped fuel leaks and the starting is much easier.

Now, I have some blk smoke at startup and nailing at idle. Once I accelerate and drive off the nailing stops.

Should I consider replacing the injectors (220K miles) ??

Where should I source the replacements ? I did not price the dealership costs, but am wary of aftermarkets.
I plan to do a diesel purge, but I do not think that will correct.

Your comments are welcome.

The above in red sounds like you could have a small air leak.
Ounce you get moving does it smoke? When you first start and it is nailing a smoking at idle is it running smoothly?

If it has 220k on the origional Injectors I would think the Spray Nozzles would be worn by now. However, without knowing the history the only way to tell for sure is the pull them out and have them Pop-tested.
If you are going the have them Pop-Tested at a Fuel Injcection shop they often test for free if the need rebuilding and you have the work done at the same shop.

C Sean Watts sells New Spray Nozzles and also rebuilds Injectors and has a lot of knowlege on the Bosch verses other makes of Spay Nozzles. There is another member bgkast who also rebuilds. Both at extremely reasonable labor costs.

The exchange Injectors you get from the Injernet Part Sellsers should also be OK (I am not speaking of Ebay) and should come with a warranty on the Injectors themselves.

When Bosch has the Injectors for my year and model rebuilt they are using Made in India Spray Nozzles. I do not know what they are using on the newer models.

nhdoc · #4 04-05-2009, 06:37 AM

I can tell you from my experience the only sources for replacement injectors are:

1) New from Bosch - $110±

2) New from Mercedes - $250±

3) Rebuilt from Mercedes - $135± + Core

There is no online source for rebuilts that I could find. Worldpac was out of stock on the Bosch replacements after I ordered 4 so I ordered 2 rebuilts from my dealer to make a set of 6. The new Bosch replacements are the same as the Mercedes brand (Bosch makes them for Mercedes) except the Mercedes brand has the Mercedes PN and star stamped into the body while the Bosch has only its own PN on it. As far as I can tell this model was only made for this engine (606.952) so there are not a lot of injector choices for them.

After I put 6 new ones in my car it ran exactly the same as it did with my originals (no problems). I figured after 173K miles they probably would have some spray pattern issues and I might pick up a little MPG's by renewing them. I sent my original set to Bryan Kast who confirmed they all had fine spray patterns (after 173K miles) and 5 out of 6 were popping between 131 and 134.5 bar. One was at 127 so he shimmed it up to 135 and returned them. My bottom line was I spent about $700 to have a spare set of injectors but there was nothing wrong with the ones in my car.

Any time you crack open the fuel system on these cars they get noisy for a while. Mine took several hundred miles of driving to get all of the air out so give it some time, that's my advice.

cessna5354 · #5 04-05-2009, 07:37 AM

The car was purchased from MB dealership w/ 50K under starmark, but I am sure the injectors are original. I have only driven 5 miles since the injector work, so air may still reside.

The smoke I am seeing is only at startup, as I have (1) GP out, and another with 30% proper resistance. AI am thinking incomplete burn of initial fuel.

I DO get smoke on the highway if I bury the accelerator, convient if I have an idiot behind me... I will drive it and see if the air runs its course, but I believe I am due for injectors.

I read online of **************, but not a good review. Also saw Diesel Kast, have no information on them. I would rather keep the money within this board.

I run the '83 thru the winter, and need to renew registration on the '99 and will have it on the road this week. I will monitor for a month and report back.

As you indicated NHDoc, no need to spend $1,000 and see no improvement.
Thanks much, Enjoy the Day !!

nhdoc · #6 04-05-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessna5354

The car was purchased from MB dealership w/ 50K under starmark, but I am sure the injectors are original. I have only driven 5 miles since the injector work, so air may still reside.

The smoke I am seeing is only at startup, as I have (1) GP out, and another with 30% proper resistance. AI am thinking incomplete burn of initial fuel.

I DO get smoke on the highway if I bury the accelerator, convient if I have an idiot behind me... I will drive it and see if the air runs its course, but I believe I am due for injectors.

I read online of **************, but not a good review. Also saw Diesel Kast, have no information on them. I would rather keep the money within this board.

I run the '83 thru the winter, and need to renew registration on the '99 and will have it on the road this week. I will monitor for a month and report back.

As you indicated NHDoc, no need to spend $1,000 and see no improvement.
Thanks much, Enjoy the Day !!

Well if you have a GP or two out it explains the smoke you see at startup. Fix that first and then you can determine if you have more troubles. As for some smoke at WOT that does happen sometimes with these cars. I could not get mine to do it consistently, it is more like blowing out some soot that might have collected from being a little "tender" on the pedal. If you can lay a path of smoke every time you hit WOT then you might have an injector or two with a less than ideal spray pattern but that is easy to check by pulling them out and having them tested. Still, I would say fix the GPs and wait a while to see how it settles down.

Also fuel economy will tell you a lot about the condition of the injectors. If you are getting reasonably good fuel economy (high 20s MPG around town, 30 or more on the highway seems typical) then I would say there isn't much to be concerned about. If you are seeing numbers less than that then have the injectors tested for spray pattern and pop pressure.

cessna5354 · #7 04-05-2009, 09:12 AM

I am getting a consistent 28 - 30 mpg, If I keep my foot out or it. I do drive without aggressive acceleration. Like Driving Miss Lazy...

I only drive this car in the summer months and with a garage within the house I rarely see temps below 45 F, along the NJ coast inside the garage. Starting is not a big problem with GP's not 100 %.

I might take the IM off and see if I can PB the injector for a couple of days. I have heard of just tapping the GP with a light impact to coax it out.

I am between operating it as is with GP's, or chance breaking one. I know as I delay this, I better the chances of breaking.

TMAllison · #8 04-05-2009, 10:50 AM

Like NHDOC asys, give it some time after the DV seals. Very common for them to idle a little louder afterwards. It is my feeling that deterioated rubber and dirt particles remain in the DV chamber when they are removed and foul things. Some residual air may also be possible. Seems to almost always quiet down after 500 or 1000 miles.

If you've got a bad inj spray pattern or a dribbler I would not expect that to resolve itself.

Most of us can get some smoke at WOT; as you say, it is handy when dealing with tailgaiters.

cessna5354 · #9 04-10-2009, 11:49 AM

I removed all (6) GP's earlier this AM, All really tight and snug in a 10 yr car w/ 210K miles.
I sprayed WD40 and tapped a 3/8" ratchet about 20X, waited, tried again.
First one came out with resistance, second pulled very hard, then like NO resistance, heart sank, but came out. Balance followed.

I will replace GP's and check things out.
I was getting the check engine light & the GP lite would come on, off with start, then back on for 4-5 minutes ?

Thanks for confidence and guidance.

Gary Pasternak

Diesel911 · #10 04-10-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessna5354

I removed all (6) GP's earlier this AM, All really tight and snug in a 10 yr car w/ 210K miles.
I sprayed WD40 and tapped a 3/8" ratchet about 20X, waited, tried again.
First one came out with resistance, second pulled very hard, then like NO resistance, heart sank, but came out. Balance followed.

I will replace GP's and check things out.
I was getting the check engine light & the GP lite would come on, off with start, then back on for 4-5 minutes ?

Thanks for confidence and guidance.

Gary Pasternak

It is a good idea to ream/clean the Carbon out of the holes before you install the new ones as Carbon trapping the tip is one of the reasons they get stuck in the head. Also the conduct heat to where they are supposed to when the Carbon is removed.

There are some threads that have some alternative cleaning methods. The Bit on a real Glow Plug Reamer is aproximtely 7mm.
Put a Never-Seez type compound on the threads of the Glow Plug as this is another area where they get stuck in the head.

Also while your GPs are out you could check them using your Jumper Cables and a Battery to see if they are really getting as hot as they are supposed to (there is a thread on this also). As, sometimes the Ohm out OK but still are not working.

cessna5354 · #11 04-10-2009, 02:17 PM

Diesel911,

Did not plan on reusing any, I have not had a chance to light them up with a battery, but will later. I am thinking that after 200K+ I should just change all since I am in there.

Resistance values are 252, 0.5, 0.8, 980, 0.8, 326,000

Great catch on the reamer, Where can I source a GP reamer ? I looked on FastLane, No Joy.

The threads look quite clean, but some residue remaining. I was thinking just a round brush to clean, but not chase the threads.

Thanks,

pimpernell · #12 04-11-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessna5354

Diesel911,

Did not plan on reusing any, I have not had a chance to light them up with a battery, but will later. I am thinking that after 200K+ I should just change all since I am in there.

Resistance values are 252, 0.5, 0.8, 980, 0.8, 326,000

Great catch on the reamer, Where can I source a GP reamer ? I looked on FastLane, No Joy.

The threads look quite clean, but some residue remaining. I was thinking just a round brush to clean, but not chase the threads.

Thanks,

Got mine from Ebay. Turned out to be excellent quality from a name brand manufacturer , and really got the carbon out. Just put some grease on the flutes in the front of the reamer to catch the carbon it removes. Works like a charm. Good luck

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Plug-Reamer-604-605-606-Diesel-Engine-Tool_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem110370968979QQitemZ110370968979QQptZMotors Q5fAutomotiveQ5fTools#ht_692wt_1352