rocker arm was a bad test site.. post 72 is a bad test, sorry, sorry...

So now your chain stretch is 11 degrees, which is pretty close to the "inaccurate" check you first did by lining up the cam reference marks. Sounds like a worn chain, plain and simple. I'm less suspicious of TDC being off, but if it were my car and I was able to check it relatively easily I'd probably do it... You really don't know a lot about the history of the engine.

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1987 W201 190D

Forgot to say "Good job!"

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1987 W201 190D

I know nothing about this engine other than it was in a car that some russian kid that got deported had, then his buddy sold it to me for 300 bucks.. I trailered the car home and got it started, noticed it smoked heavily when I started it, but it started pretty easy. So I went ahead and put it in my car.. now Ive got the conversion done, just need to get the engine running good.

Trying to avoid taking the engine out again, although I had originally planed to rebuild the bottom end after I made the parts to convert to the 115 car.

A lot of diesels after sitting around for quite awhile will smoke. Did you run it for awhile to see if the smoking reduced?

Oh yeah I ran it around a while right when I got the engine in the car. drove a couple miles, tinkered around with it.. definitely up to temp. Still smokey as hell.

Although, I dont have a temp gauge. Which brings up another question of, where do I get a new mechanical temp sender for a 220d? (thats not $350)

Not exactly.
With the cam marks you line them up, look down & get your reading.

With the 2mm lift method you get your reading and compare it to the chart.
figure 20* minus 13.5 for a used chain = 6.5* stretch

This can be fixed with a woodruf key. I'm guessing when the timing is corrected the injection timing will come back into line as well.

Thanks Rummur for finally doing it the right way!

Danny

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1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles

OBK member #23

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(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
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LOL

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1980 240d ,

chain elongation, cam marks reference:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/10414-help-i-need-check-stretch.html

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html

evap fin cleaning:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/156207-photo-step-step-post-showing-w123-evaporator-removal-1983-240d-1982-300td.html?highlight=evaporator

A/C thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html

Thank you for hangin in there and not aborting because of inaccuracies. One last question and I think ill be able to wrap this one up.. how do I figure out which 617 engine I have? There isnt an info tag any where visible on this thing. Is there a casting number somewhere? Or are you confident that 6.5* offset is going to correct the timing?

As you know, there are two different camshafts available for the 617 engine. The early versions (617.950 110 HP) used a camshaft marked '00' that had the following timing figures at 2mm valve lift:

Intake Opens 13.5° ATDC Exhaust Opens 19° BBDC

Intake Closes 15.5° ABDC Exhaust Closes 17° BTDC

I prefer the lengthened valve timing of the later (617.951/952 125 HP) camshaft marked '05' and use it in all 617 engines I work with. The valve events at 2mm valve lift are as follows:

Intake Opens 9° ATDC Exhaust Opens 27° BBDC

Intake Closes 15° ABDC Exhaust Closes 16° BTDC

Mercedes gives these specifications when a new timing chain is used and offeres the following valve timing figures for engines with 20,000 km or more:

Intake Opens 11° ATDC Exhaust Opens 29° BBDC

Intake Closes 17° ABDC Exhaust Closes 14° BTDC

Based on these figures, it is clear that Mercedes wants about 2° of initial advance on the camshaft to account for the eventual stretch/wear of the timing chain. Accordingly, I install all 617 camshafts at this setting and I always use the '05' camshaft during overhauls. The following are the part numbers for the offset woodruff keys:

621 991 04 67 = 2°

621 991 02 67 = 3°

621 991 01 67 = 4°

621 991 00 67 = 5°

Hope this helps...Robert

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Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership

There is a pad on the driver's side of the engine block, near the back where the head attaches to the block...Your engine type code is the first part of this group of numbers...Robert

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Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership

I believe I said "pretty close." Not "exactly."

Yes, that has never been in question.


You are assuming an engine with a 13.5 degree used chain specification, I assumed an 11 degree used chain specification as that is what had been discussed in the thread. We don't know which is correct for the engine in question yet.

Assuming an 11 degree used chain/9 degree new chain specification, my calculations are:

20 degree minus 9 degree = 11 degrees of stretch FROM NEW. This is one degree away from the 12 degree "rough" indication he got from lining up the marks and reading the crank pulley.

Now, what to do... if it is a 9/11 degree engine, then he needs to correct from 20 degrees to 11 degrees... or 9 degrees. I'd use a 5 degree key (10 at the crank), that splits the difference between a new and used chain specification and lets the chain continue to wear within the tolerance rather than using a 4 degree key which won't get into tolerance anyway. Now, for me... I'd replace the chain rather than using the maximum key allowed. I'd personally feel more comfortable.

If it is a 11.5/13.5 degree engine, then the stretch is 20-11.5 = 8.5 degrees stretch FROM NEW. I'd use a 4 degree key (8 at the crank) to get the timing back to 12 degrees, again splitting the difference between new and used chain specification. I, personally, would still consider replacing the chain -- but that's just my own preference.

Now I do not recall if we know that there is not already an offset key installed in this engine. If there is, then the chain will almost certainly need to be replaced.

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1987 W201 190D

Is there a reason the original poster doesn't want to replace the chain??? We have put new chains on old sprockets many times with good results because the customer could not or would not spring for the sprocket replacement.

A new chain is relatively easy to wind into the motor with an old tensioner (lock clip removed) a master link and a helper.

Just curious...Robert

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Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership

Yeah, but you'd also put in a 60C t'stat! (Kidding!)

I'm totally in favor of a new chain here, but there was a lot of discussion about offset keys being recommended by the FSM until there is "excessive stretch," whatever that is.

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1987 W201 190D

Gotcha...

Here is my opinion on chain stretch:

If a factory available key will bring your timing back into specification, then that would be, in my mind, an acceptbale, though not desireable option. A new chain is always best...

Yeah.....I'm willing to risk an immediate and catastrophic engine explosion by running the dangerously cold 60°C thermostat...:-)

__________________
Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership