Oh dear....

Wish I hadnt started this thread.....

I was looking for different TYPES that had been tried, and for what reason--say, Power, Torque, Economy-- and the results found in their use.

NOT opinions on the quality of various Makes....

Oh well....Back to the Drawing-Board--Thanks anyway.....

__________________
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Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

I've used OEM 240/, Bosch 265 and Bosch 265 in Volkswagen 2-stage injectors.

The 240/ is quiet and gives decent low-end torque.
265 is a little louder, loses some low end torque but has more high end power.
The 2-stages were quiet, even with 265 nozzles, but lost noticeable low end torque.

I use 240/ nozzles @135 bar in my 240D and 256 nozzles @140bar in my 300D.

I think this is a very important thread but it SHOULD include Monarch and Bosio, not as better or worse than OEM but as comparisons to SPECIFIC part numbers of OEM as far as noise, idle, torque, plugging etc.

__________________
Ron Schroeder
'85 300 Turbo Diesel 2 tank WVO
'83 300 Turbo Diesel 2 tank WVO
Some former WVO vehicles since ~1980:
'83 Mercedes 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 ISUZU Pup
'70 SAAB 99 with Kubota diesel
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota diesel
'86 Golf
Several diesel generators
All with 2 tank WVO conversion
LI NY

Exactly! TBH, I REALLY Didnt want to get into all that boso/monak/Make orientated stuff. Leave that for another debate....

Yes, Type Numbers and how you found thete way they perform....

Thanks Forced-Induction, These are exactly the sorts of comments I was looking for--(For the most part, they track with my own findings)....

__________________
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Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

The 1510, 314 and 327 are NOT interchangeable for the 617 engine and will damage pre chambers and/or pistons. HOWEVER, it has not stopped some folks I've talked to from using them.

__________________
1987 300D (230,000 mi on a #14 head-watching the temp gauge and keeping the ghost in the machine)
Raleigh NC - Home of deep fried sushi!

C Sean Watts--

I believe you are mis-informed concerning Bosch and fuel-injection....

It was Bosch who developed the very First Injection Pump And Injector that was fitted to the engine during development at the MAN works and designed by One, Rudolph Diesel. They then went on to supply fuel systems continuously from that point (Source, Robert-Bosch Website....).....

Also, Fitting a NON standard Pintle-Nozzle will NOT destroy a Pre-Chamber or engine component. However a Direct-Injection engine with 'Hole' type nozzles can be completely wrecked by the mis-use of an incorrect type nozzle...

The differences in Pintle design affect the torque, the Power and Economy and Emissions only. They are tailored to each engine, and the maker dictates the power et-al for his motors....

BTW, the 1510 was fitted to the OM615 for certain applications, and the 314 to some 605 and 606 engines for 'quiet-operation'--Mercedes words, not mine....

The 327 however was only ever fitted to a 1.4 Citroen AX as far as I can tell--No matter, They work pretty well, Very good low-down torque in comparison to the 240/ and getting very quiet now they are settling in

__________________
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

I read, write and speak German and I learned the time line at the Automotive museum in Zwickau. Like I said, no data will stop a home brew engineer from doing what he/she wants to do....

The photo is not mine, it was uploaded by another forum member (full credit to the owner.) A poorly spraying nozzle did this. This can also happen if a nozzle pattern is not properly matched to a prechamber it sprays into.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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1987 300D (230,000 mi on a #14 head-watching the temp gauge and keeping the ghost in the machine)
Raleigh NC - Home of deep fried sushi!

Mercedes prechambers are unlike almost everything else. The ball does most of the atomization in these, others are an open swirl chamber. Those nozzles will run but the spray pattern will be way off.

So, in your case, the DN O SD 265 nozzles you are currently using in your 617 are not suitable--IF we take your statement as fact.

The 265 was never issued in any 617, however, the 261 was used in the 617 in the M.B. 4X4.....

the 265 was used in later Angled Injector 602/3 types with Offset-ball--Therefore the '--spray-pattern will be way off--' when used with the straight non-angled injector chamber and central ball of your 617....

But, Dont worry, You'll be quite safe, providing they are in good working condition --which I'm sure they are--I belie3ve you have found them very successful....

With regards these nozzle-types. The ones commonly found in the 617 etc, were designed well over 30 years ago...

There have been many more newer types designed with economy and power since.
All I'm trying to do is find a more efficient one of later design....

__________________
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Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

A poorly spraying nozzle did this.

--Exactly. I rest my case.

ANY nozzle this is malfunctioning will cause damage. A new nozzle (of whatever Pintle-type with good spray-pattern) will be fine....

Here in Europe, I have seen 220 types and the 1510 used in 'standard' swirl-chamber engines, and in MB Pre-Chamber types....

__________________
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

UNTIL the prechamber looks like the one in the photo, even if it's brand new and spraying exactly like it should.

I didn't make that up nor did I learn it from a DIYer. When engineers at companies who design and manufacture them say, "X is good, Y we never tested and Z should not be done at all..." I'll put my faith in it.

__________________
1987 300D (230,000 mi on a #14 head-watching the temp gauge and keeping the ghost in the machine)
Raleigh NC - Home of deep fried sushi!

And, did you hear this From a Nozzle Designer, and referring Specifically to Pintle type DN.SD... types??

Over the years, Ive tried all sorts, and never had any damage at all. Believe me, I WILL tell you IF I ever suffer any pre-chamber/etc. damage from my experiments....

Currently, my 300D is using the more delicate (read crap...) old 'loop' type glow-plugs. These would be the first items to show damage due to their low mass in comparison to the 'ball' and chamber itself...

__________________
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

do you have any relevant information regarding spray pattern dimensions / patterns and velocity?

..or just trial and error?

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I Really wish I did....

I have tried on many occasions to get such info from Bosch, Delphi, Lucas and others.

Its regarded as 'propriety information' and these makers will not disclose it under ANY circumstances.

They wont even allow me to have simple service-info/exploded diagrams of pumps with the settings or pump Test-Plans etc, These I had to get through 'Back-Door' means...

Diesel Injection really IS a 'closed-shop' with regards to Information.

I have to rely on microscopic examination of nozzle-pintles and assess their possibilities from that--Only way Ive found so far that illustrates the differences in the flat-cut and taper etc....

__________________
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

You guys might find this a good read. FWIW Kerma (Charlie) was the only vendor in the US for Bosio nozzles for quite some time, but now it seems they are coming from alternate sources.

-Jason

__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.