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#16
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I think this is a very important thread but it SHOULD include Monarch and Bosio, not as better or worse than OEM but as comparisons to SPECIFIC part numbers of OEM as far as noise, idle, torque, plugging etc.
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Ron Schroeder '85 300 Turbo Diesel 2 tank WVO '83 300 Turbo Diesel 2 tank WVO Some former WVO vehicles since ~1980: '83 Mercedes 240D '80 Audi 4000D '83 ISUZU Pup '70 SAAB 99 with Kubota diesel '76 Honda Civic with Kubota diesel '86 Golf Several diesel generators All with 2 tank WVO conversion LI NY |
#17
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Yes, Type Numbers and how you found thete way they perform.... Thanks Forced-Induction, These are exactly the sorts of comments I was looking for--(For the most part, they track with my own findings)....
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http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K, -Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog. W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow, -Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year.... |
#18
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Monark was making diesel injectors when Bosch only did electrical parts. I cannot speak for Bosio but Monark supplies IPs for ships, buses, construction equipment and generators.
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1987 300D (230,000 mi on a #14 head-watching the temp gauge and keeping the ghost in the machine) Raleigh NC - Home of deep fried sushi! Last edited by C Sean Watts; 05-05-2009 at 03:48 PM. |
#19
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1987 300D (230,000 mi on a #14 head-watching the temp gauge and keeping the ghost in the machine) Raleigh NC - Home of deep fried sushi! |
#20
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C Sean Watts--
I believe you are mis-informed concerning Bosch and fuel-injection.... It was Bosch who developed the very First Injection Pump And Injector that was fitted to the engine during development at the MAN works and designed by One, Rudolph Diesel. They then went on to supply fuel systems continuously from that point (Source, Robert-Bosch Website....)..... Also, Fitting a NON standard Pintle-Nozzle will NOT destroy a Pre-Chamber or engine component. However a Direct-Injection engine with 'Hole' type nozzles can be completely wrecked by the mis-use of an incorrect type nozzle... The differences in Pintle design affect the torque, the Power and Economy and Emissions only. They are tailored to each engine, and the maker dictates the power et-al for his motors.... BTW, the 1510 was fitted to the OM615 for certain applications, and the 314 to some 605 and 606 engines for 'quiet-operation'--Mercedes words, not mine.... The 327 however was only ever fitted to a 1.4 Citroen AX as far as I can tell--No matter, They work pretty well, Very good low-down torque in comparison to the 240/ and getting very quiet now they are settling in
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http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K, -Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog. W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow, -Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year.... |
#21
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The photo is not mine, it was uploaded by another forum member (full credit to the owner.) A poorly spraying nozzle did this. This can also happen if a nozzle pattern is not properly matched to a prechamber it sprays into.
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1987 300D (230,000 mi on a #14 head-watching the temp gauge and keeping the ghost in the machine) Raleigh NC - Home of deep fried sushi! |
#22
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Mercedes prechambers are unlike almost everything else. The ball does most of the atomization in these, others are an open swirl chamber. Those nozzles will run but the spray pattern will be way off.
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#23
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A poorly spraying nozzle did this.
--Exactly. I rest my case. ANY nozzle this is malfunctioning will cause damage. A new nozzle (of whatever Pintle-type with good spray-pattern) will be fine.... Here in Europe, I have seen 220 types and the 1510 used in 'standard' swirl-chamber engines, and in MB Pre-Chamber types....
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http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K, -Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog. W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow, -Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year.... Last edited by Alastair; 05-06-2009 at 10:30 AM. |
#24
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That was my mistake too, though I didn't know the part number....I thought he was going between NA and turbo injectors. My bad. I do still think that monarck and bosio should be considered in this discussion though.
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TC Current stable: - 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL - 2007 Saturn sky redline - 2004 Explorer...under surgery. Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth |
#25
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I didn't make that up nor did I learn it from a DIYer. When engineers at companies who design and manufacture them say, "X is good, Y we never tested and Z should not be done at all..." I'll put my faith in it.
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1987 300D (230,000 mi on a #14 head-watching the temp gauge and keeping the ghost in the machine) Raleigh NC - Home of deep fried sushi! |
#26
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Over the years, Ive tried all sorts, and never had any damage at all. Believe me, I WILL tell you IF I ever suffer any pre-chamber/etc. damage from my experiments.... Currently, my 300D is using the more delicate (read crap...) old 'loop' type glow-plugs. These would be the first items to show damage due to their low mass in comparison to the 'ball' and chamber itself...
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http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K, -Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog. W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow, -Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year.... |
#27
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So, in your case, the DN O SD 265 nozzles you are currently using in your 617 are not suitable--IF we take your statement as fact. The 265 was never issued in any 617, however, the 261 was used in the 617 in the M.B. 4X4..... the 265 was used in later Angled Injector 602/3 types with Offset-ball--Therefore the '--spray-pattern will be way off--' when used with the straight non-angled injector chamber and central ball of your 617.... But, Dont worry, You'll be quite safe, providing they are in good working condition --which I'm sure they are--I belie3ve you have found them very successful.... With regards these nozzle-types. The ones commonly found in the 617 etc, were designed well over 30 years ago... There have been many more newer types designed with economy and power since. All I'm trying to do is find a more efficient one of later design....
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http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K, -Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog. W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow, -Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year.... |
#28
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do you have any relevant information regarding spray pattern dimensions / patterns and velocity?
..or just trial and error? |
#29
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I Really wish I did.... I have tried on many occasions to get such info from Bosch, Delphi, Lucas and others. Its regarded as 'propriety information' and these makers will not disclose it under ANY circumstances. They wont even allow me to have simple service-info/exploded diagrams of pumps with the settings or pump Test-Plans etc, These I had to get through 'Back-Door' means... Diesel Injection really IS a 'closed-shop' with regards to Information. I have to rely on microscopic examination of nozzle-pintles and assess their possibilities from that--Only way Ive found so far that illustrates the differences in the flat-cut and taper etc....
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http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K, -Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog. W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow, -Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year.... |
#30
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The following is a quote from Monark Website.... MonarkDiesel GmbH & Co. KG was founded in Hamburg in 1951. We specialise in precision-made injection equipment and have been supplying several leading car and engine manufacturers for many decades. To meet the requirements of our customers and the market, our product range will be continually updated and extended. Today MD is a modern enterprise which does the customer a service with qualified and experienced employees. At LEAST 10 years earlier, during WWII, Bosch made the fuel injection-pumps for Messershmidt ME 109 and others and they looks suspiciously similar to the PES types we all know and love....
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http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K, -Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog. W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow, -Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year.... |
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