Well, my temps are from last year as my AC is nonfunctional right now. (I poked a hole in my parallel flow condenser when taking the engine out last fall.) I have a new condenser coming in today and may be back up and running this weekend.

I had a parallel flow condenser. I first ran it on r134a. My vent temps with the blower on high were mid 40sF. At a stoplight they rose to ~60F. I wasn't pleased with that so I decided to take out the r134a and put r12 in. I noticed a slight increase in performance with just a few degrees cooler a both idle and on the highway. If I put the blower on low vs high I noticed a substantial decrease in vent temp. About 5F.

The condenser I just ordered is much bigger. The one I had originally was 24.5 x 14. The new one is 26 x 16. I did a bunch of measurements and shuffling my old condenser around and I should be able to make it fit. We'll see how much of a difference this makes. I will be putting r12 back in since I now have a recharge and recycle machine in my garage.

Is this fact or fiction that you only noticed a slight increase in performance with R12? Is it true that some members insisted on R12 is superior and is willing to pay the price for it?:(

It doesn't matter, on a W123, whether you are running R12, Freeze12 or R134a, at idle on an above 90 degree day your vent temps will climb over 60 degrees. If you idle for 10-15 minutes [ trying to eat your lunch for example :o] it can approach 70.
The condenser and the aux. fan do not support the AC system in a manner that will get you any better.
BTW, I've had/have W123's with all the freons indicated above, with very sound AC components. It's just what these W123's do...... ;)

thats what I thought.

Maybe a bigger and faster aux fan would help. One that would pull less power too.

ah-kay,
Your credibility has long since vanished on this subject. You only look silly with these kinds of childish posts. You might as well do the research and figure out how to help people with AC issues by sharing good information instead of wasting bandwidth with more trolling.

The ability of an automobile to continue putting out acceptable cool after being caught in traffic can be helped by increasing the volume of the system between the conversion point in the condenser and the TxValve. This is the part of the high pressure area where liquified refrigerant is stored. A larger condenser or a larger receiver dryer ( or two being my preferred method ) can store up the work done by the system AT SPEED... and utilize it when less than ideal conditions of air passing by the condenser happen afterwards.

Do I have to state the defintion of facts and fiction for you? You tell me if that is fact or fiction that I ran r134a in my system. Then in the exact same system I noticed cooler temps with r12 in place.

I paid LESS for my r12 than I did for my r134a.

Obviously you are trying to bring up the fact that you are against r12. We have already been down that road.

Plus, in MN we don't have many 90F days. Most have stated that the BIGGEST difference between the r134a and r12 in their systems is when the ambient temps get above 90F. So if I lived in say Phoenix, the difference would likely be much greater.

Give it up. You don't even have working ac in your car. You admitted you have never worked on an ac system. You don't have a leg to stand on in this debate.

If you have nothing good to day, say nothing. Did you read thee forum rules.

I am sure I know what I am doing and I know how much I am spending on car maintenance. Some members insisted R12 is better and it turns out to be 'slight improvement'. I want to tell members that R134a is comparable to R12 and is good for the environment. What wrong with that?

It appears you still have not answered my question. Is it FACT or FICTION that r12 worked better in my car than r134a?

As per other members in this forum
"Arguing on the Internet is like competing in the special olympics. Win or lose, you're still retarded".

The following are facts.

1) R12 is banned and not manufactured by all countries in the world.
2) R12 is OZONE depleting and contributes to global warming.
3) You cannot buy R12 without a EPA license. How easy to get a EPA license is procedural loophole and should be discounted.
4) R134a is comparable to R12 as per the scientific paper.
Executive summary:
"The results indicate that the performance of R134a is very similar to that of R12 justifying the claim that it is a drop in replacement for R12"
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V1Y-48S3121-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_user id=10&md5=dfc8561b2249d18febba87a87cec6124
5) Conversion kits readily available from most Autoshops and I am very happy with my conversion(s).:D

I agree on all points.

What is wrong with that statement is that it is an ignorant incorrect statement. R134a is not GOOD for the environment.


http://www.r744.com/article.view.php?Id=661
The use of HFC-134a and other synthetic refrigerants may cause more serious environmental damage than previously thought. Trifluoroacetic acid (TFA), a decomposition product of R134a, will thus be leached out from the atmosphere by the rain, developing a herbicide effect capable of posing an incalculable risk to plants and other organisms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-134a
Recently, tetrafluoroethane [R134-a] has been subject to use restrictions due to its theorized contribution to climate change. In the EU, it will be banned as from 2011 in all new cars[1].

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/automotive/speeches_presentations/saalfelden17022006.pdf


Please read the above articles and links to educate yourself and stop posting false information. R134a is not GOOD for the environment. Europe is banning it from all new cars starting in a year and a half because of its contribution to global warming.

Boy, I'm having a tough time recalling who started this whole thing...perhaps I should look at post #17 on this thread.

You start with a trolling statement and then you tell me than I shouldn't 'argue' with you because you can't answer a simple question?

Ambient temperature + 5-10 degrees. It would probably be cooler if the AC worked.

LOL !!!!!!!

When I first started researching automobile AC stuff... I was surprised at the capacity of automobile systems to cool. A room AC in a house is only expected to change the air from intake to exhaust by 6-8 degrees... but run regularly in order to take out the moisture in the air... and it has the entire room of cool air stored up when the door is opened.. etc...

BUT our cars.....and particular SwampYankee's WAGON are aptly described as ROLLING LEAKING GREENHOUSES with regards to their ability to take in heat...

If this concept were more firmly entrenched I think fewer shortcuts would be offered or accepted in working on automobile AC's...