I will be entering my first winter with my beloved 1984 300D. For all you veterans out there, would you say that it is necessary to change to 4 winter tires? What would you recommend? Should I get new tires on separate steel rims so I don't have to rebalance them every year? Thanks

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85 300CD Signal Red/Tan sold
83 300D Manganese Brown 109K
97 E420 Midnight Blue 197K sold
98 BMW 328i Vert White 100K, sold
95 BMW 525i White 125K, sold
93 BMW 525iT Red 193K, sold
95 E320 Green Wagon 125K, sold
94 E320 White 127K, sold
85 300SD 156K Grey (Annie), sold
84 300D Lapis Blue 170K (Judy), sold
99 ML 320 Black (lease), 1998 C230 White (lease)
00 Honda S2000 Red (lease)
86 Mercedes 300E (sold)
84 Porsche 911 Red (sold), 1965 Porsche 911 White (sold)

I live in SW PA. and don't use tire chains or snow tires.. We don't get that much snow here but it does add up. Last year in particular, we had a surprise 8+ inches at noon that all the forcasters said would be rain; needless to say they were wrong and most companies and schools were closed(ing) at around noon. I had my trusty 300D. Not only did I get home in the unplowed 8 inches, I also ran a few errands (I did have relatively new tires) and made excellent time (it's hilly here). Most of my friends, as I heard the next day, were either stuck or broken down; including my brother who had to ditch his BMW; ha ha ha (but his tires are pilots and suck in snow). Unless you live in Buffalo, New England, or Alaska, I wouldn't recogmend snow tires, but if you are worried, get a set of chains and heep them in your trunk just in case. I did better than a new all wheel drive volvo with traction control, so I'm happy.

Sincerely,

Dr. D

I live in Michigan and we generally get dumped on pretty well. My Volvo (rear wheel & 4k lbs) has always done well with regular Michelins.

I am going to put two rear snow tires on the 300DT however because my girls (beginners) are driving it. I'll leave the 300TD alone because of the weight and newer tires.

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DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed

I got a '79 300d last year and didn't try it without snow tires. I live in St. paul. we get some snow.
I got some nokians for $80 each and put them on all 4 wheels. they were awesome. I could not make the car slide if I wanted to (granted it is a deisel, and heavy to boot). If I were only going to get 2, I would consider putting them on front. Getting stuck is an annoyance, but if your rear wheels have better traction than the front wheels it seems like it could be much easier to get into trouble. I would take stopping and steering ability when once under way over good start up traction. it is easier to steer out of a skid than to make your front wheels grip once they have started sliding.

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andy t
'78 300d
'95 volvo 850, wagon
'86 300sdl - engine out, maybe I'll have it rolling by June

whole bunch o' bicycles

I have driven my 300 td in heavy snow at lake Tahoe with only regular tires and gotten along fine. I've used chains as well but would avoid them unless it's really nasty. As a former 15 year resident of Buffalo I can tell you from experience that the weight of the car and torque of the engine are as important to driving in the snow as tires. If you haven't driven much in snow get the snow tires because these are such heavy cars that when they start to slide the tend to go big time. The extra margin of safety is a great idea if you're not used to having a car slide around a bit under you. If you get just two tires I'd put them on the back, that's what we always did in Buffalo. If it's sloppy out the light braking you do involves less weight transfer to the front wheels than usual so your rear tires are still a big factor. The more usual way you loose traction is at the driven wheels. This often happened when the auto tranny shifted while I was on the throttle a bit too much. Wheelguru is right about snows helping with steering but if I had only one pair I'd still put them on the back and just slow down! Deep snow actually helps to slow the car a bit and from my experience most front wheel slides happened due ice hidden under the snow in which case unstudded snows are only marginally better than a good, new set of all season tires. To be really safe, as we used to say in Buffalo, when in doubt take a snowmobile!

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LRG
1987 300D Turbo 175K
2006 Toyota Prius, efficent but no soul
1985 300 TDT(130K miles of trouble free motoring)now sold

How about something that's not a full-blown snow tire, but instead is M+S rated? I've seen some fairly normal-looking tires that were M+S rated, and they did fairly well in snow. (M+S stands for Mud and Snow)

I'm more worried about the fuel jelling....

Ken300D

Here in new jersey, last year in late december we got 16" of snow.. I got out early in the morning when there was a good 10" on the road.. unplowed. My 300D barely moved.. i got about 15 feet from my parking spot on the street and had to back up.. i got stuck 5 or 10 times in 15 feet.. snow just kept builing up under the car and it would lift the tires off the ground.

BUT i must say in ice and packed snow the car is excellent. Very predictable and steady on its feet.

I had regular all season tires I may add.

John

lrg,
My lineage is orriginally from Buffalo NY. also. I'll tell you that it is certainly the best place to figure out how to drive in snow, though the best car I have ever driven in snow was my 69' VW Beetle. I guess all that weight in the back made it perfect for snow driving. Good luck, but unfortunately we get little snow in SE PA.

Dr. D

For myself (in Massachusetts), I made the decision to put on four good snows. I bought steel rims so I dont have to pay for changing/balancing tires each season. Total investment for a set of good snows on used rims is about $450...less than the cost of one fender-bender!!

Look at it this way, once you have the rims, you only subsequent cost is replacing/mounting/balancing new tires. A good set of snows should last 3 to 4 seasons. Assume a cost of $70 per tire x 4 = $280, mounting & balancing another $50 for a total of $330....a cost of $85 to $100 each year.

The new soft compound snow tires are ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!! Almost magic. I swear by them.

My last pair (for the 85 300D) were Yokahama Guardex 600 which lasted for four seasons...yes a full four seasons. These tires were amazing...the only problem was a little squirminess when cornering and on highway. I work in consulting and put 25,000 to 30,000 miles a year on the car...put snows on after Thanksgiving, and take off around mid March.

I just bought a new set for this year.....Michelin Arctic Alpins...I did a lot of research and settled on these. Ive heard bad things about the Bridgestone Blizzaks....real good performance, but they wear out fast. The soft compound which grips snow and ice, is only half or the tread depth on these...once you wear through this layer, you have a regular all season tire. I chose the Michelins because of user reviews and also because the tire is supposed to be a great snow/ice gripper, while at the same time being fairly quiet and stable (not squirmy). My other possible choice was the Yokahama 720's (i think that is the number)...new for this season.

I bought tires from the Tire Rack (on-line) .

Good luck

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1984 300TD Wagon, 407,800 mi (current daily driver)
1985 300DT Sedan, 330,000 mi (gone to that great autobahn in the sky)

Thank you all for your help. I will check out those Michelins at the tire rack!

__________________
85 300CD Signal Red/Tan sold
83 300D Manganese Brown 109K
97 E420 Midnight Blue 197K sold
98 BMW 328i Vert White 100K, sold
95 BMW 525i White 125K, sold
93 BMW 525iT Red 193K, sold
95 E320 Green Wagon 125K, sold
94 E320 White 127K, sold
85 300SD 156K Grey (Annie), sold
84 300D Lapis Blue 170K (Judy), sold
99 ML 320 Black (lease), 1998 C230 White (lease)
00 Honda S2000 Red (lease)
86 Mercedes 300E (sold)
84 Porsche 911 Red (sold), 1965 Porsche 911 White (sold)

Arctic Alpins are great. I bought a set for our 300E before we drove it to Florida in fear we might hit some foul weather on the journey there or back. As luck would have it, we saw nothing but dry weather both trips! I have heard that the Blizzaks' sidewalls are a little too soft, and therefore could blow out easier. But the Alpins have been absolutely great. Of course, the 300E is stored for the winter but the few times I've hit snow while driving it, the Michelins have come through without incident.

By the way, make SURE those snows come off when the weather breaks, else you'll wear them right down to nothing. I let the car sit on an old set of Bridgestone Comp T/As while it's in the garage for the winter then mount the Yokohamas on it in the springtime. The Alpins are rarely mounted up, they're just for safe measures in case we ever have to use the car in the winter.

Now remember, this is all for a 124, but I strongly recommend snows on the 123 as well. The only MBs I think that can go without snows in the winter are the W108/109 and W116 S-Class cars. The 126 definitely needs snows though.

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Regards,
Aaron

Correct me if i'm wrong, but 123's do not have limited slips rear differentials, and I am wondering if anyone knows of a kit or replacement gearset that could be put into the existing gearbox to make it a limited. I bet that would make it an even better snow car. Anyway I think the 86+ MB had a limited as an option. Any ideas?

TIA
Dr. Adam T. L. Delecki

Hey wheelguru, where did you get those Nokians? The guys on the VW diesel site are crazy over those things! I have run several different brands on my route cars in the past few years, but have been unable to find the Nokians. I've run Bridgestone Blizzaks (wore them out in less than 3 months, way toooo soft for my use) Another that is real soft but REALLY gets traction is the Cooper Weathermaster Plus ( I wore them out in 4 months) Last year I used Dayton's winter special, they lasted ALL winter, but didn't have the traction I'd like. They key to a great ice and snow tire (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they have a good blocked tread and that they are sipped. That is they have a lot of very fine slices in the tread. This helps create a suction on the road and man do they throw the snow!!!!! Dan, do you remember how much snow we got that ONE week last December? I don't remember how much it was but remember that it was a new record FOR THE WHOLE MONTH OF DECEMBER here in Michigan! I had a great time! A lot of my customers didn't get their mail, but they got their paper!! The post office didn't even get their 4WD vehicles out and TRY IT! ( the nice thing about Rabbits is that you can drive ON TOP of the snow drifts 1800lb car!) I'm going to try the 300D if it's still around this winter. Tom

I sold my 83 300d earlier this year. I drove it through two Minnesota winters (plenty of cold, some snow) with regular tires and about 150 pounds of sand in the trunk (as close to the back seat as possible) and never had a problem. As a matter of fact, just for kicks, I would drive it on a frozen lake to practice skid turns and it was very difficult to get it to spin out. I think it handled better in snow than my saab 9000. A plug in heater really helps, as does getting the valves adjusted. Make sure to put in a winter weight oil. Also, make sure you buy your diesel at a place that sells a lot of it, so you don't end up with a tank full of summer blend. You can play around with fuel additives, too.

I got the nokians here in town. (st paul) I found the distributor via the Nokian website. the place where I picked them up was an office park, not a tire store. I guess it was the Minnesota office, HQ was in North dakota. the tires rule. blocked, siped - apparently just what they should be. they gave me supreme confidence, and I didn't worry about my wife sliding or getting stuck anywhere. Having followed this thread, it looks like I might have done OK with a good set of plain tires, but the tires that came on the car were worn and would not have done very well in the snow no matter what car they were on.

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andy t
'78 300d
'95 volvo 850, wagon
'86 300sdl - engine out, maybe I'll have it rolling by June

whole bunch o' bicycles