1991 300D 2.5 Turbo, 125K miles

Ok Guys,
Now I really need your expert opinions.

I got a phonecall from the MB dealer that has my car and they told me that it looks like my timing chain is broken and the camshaft is in bad shape. They said that I will need a new camshaft, chain, a head job, new valvess, the crankshaft gear and much more !

They said that so far the labor for them to determine this has been 6 hrs !! I questioned the "customer representative" who does not seem to know much, why it took 6 chargeable hrs to figure that much out, and they still have to take off the oil pan to see if there is further damage in there. He told me that thats how long it takes and they had to remove a lot of stuff (fuel lines etc) to get to the point where they could have seen that. He also said that they will need more than 20 hrs for labour to get it fixed + parts.. he said I should expect around 25 hrs of labor or so..

I am just about ready to tell them to leave everything the way it is and I will tow the car to another mechanic..

Do you guys think that these guys are pulling my leg ? or am I way off.. Is 6 hrs a reasonable estimate for all that ? How about the total of 25 hrs to do the job ? At $100/hr I can see my bill (with parts) to get up to $5k.. Not sure if I should spend that much ....

Thanks a lot

andreas

Okay, your in a pickle... You have to ask yourself, is the car worth the 6 grand in parts and labor (and this time, do yourself a big favor and have a dealer do it, with stuff like this, its got to be done right and with a guarantee. If you went to a dealer in the first place, they would have bought you a new engine by now!) or do you want to wholesale the car for nothing (probably a few grand at most) and buy a new car for $20,000.00! So you're talking $7,000 vs. $20,000. And if your thinking of another used Benz, with the money you will spend to make it "right" in time, it will surpass your 300D, at least here you know what you have which will be a re-built car that is good for many more years service. The choice is yours and good luck.

To see the condition of the timing chain and the camshaft, only removal of the valve cover is required. This is a 7 min. job on the 60x non turbo's and I suspect that it is only slightly more on the turbo's because you need to remove the air intake member that stretches across the valve cover. In sum, you have already been taken for a ride.

WRT the repair, timing chains are easy to replace as are camshafts. The biggest issue is to reset the timing (for a dealer with the tools, this is also trivial). Assuming that there is no valve damage (???), this is not very hard.

I have done much disassembly on 60x engines in the past, and a full head and front timing chain cover removal, chain replacement and reassembly is only about an 8 h job for me total (being careful to clean the components and being mindful of details) --- AND I am not NEARLY proficient as the mechanics at the dealership.

I would certainly have the car towed from there to a reputable shop.

__________________
Jovan

'84 (11/83) 190D 2.2 5-Speed; Silver/Blue; Motor No. 00354, 402k mi (340+kmi mine)

'89 Porsche 911 Turbo Coupe; Black/Black; 53kmi
'05 BMW 530i 6-Speed; 302kmi
'19 Range Rover; 30kmi

six hours to determine you have a broken timing chain seems excessive. I can remove the valve cover in an OM602 engine in about 10 minutes - thats all you would have to do to diagnose a broken chain. If they removed the front timing chain cover and/or removed the cam I could maybe buy six hours. You would have to know exactly what they did to determine if the charge was reasonable.

I have fixed broken timing chains on OM615 and OM617 engines and I can tell you that 25 hours for total labor on that job is not bad at all - assuming they are going to pull the head off. I don't think I could do it that fast and the OM602 engine is more complex than the ones I have fixed.

I think you should talk to the guy that did the head work at 90K miles... Seems like maybe he missed something.

Sorry to hear of your problems - good luck

Tim

If they pulled the head to see if valves were bent, then that's not too far off. But if they did not determine that the chain was broken long before that, they are probably incompetent.

If the head IS off, then you would have to pay that labor to fix it anyway.

Good luck,

If the timing chain went, and the cam broke, your valves are gone!

I say, dump the car and get another.. you can get a nice 300D 2.5 turbo for a little more than the cost of this fiasco is going to cost you.

On the other hand.. once you have this stuff done the engine will be like new again.

The question is DO YOU LIKE THE CAR?

I like the car a lot..
If it wasnt for all this trouble, it would have been perfect.

If the head is really off, that's half the repair. To replace the valves and cam should take no more than two hours or so (with the head removed). Parts cost should be <$1000 if all your replacing is the chain, valves, and cam. What worries me is if your connecting rods are bent or damaged. There is no way the repair should cost what they have quoted you. I couldn't imagine it being more than $2000 in labor (if they work SSLLOOWWLLYY). I would have it towed from that dealer to either a better dealer (that is more competent) or a Mercedes specialty shop. I know great ones in PA but I imagine it wouldn't help much if you not too close (towing is $$$). I'd definitely keep the car, or even consider doing it yourself. Get the car back, send the head to a machining shop, have them replace the broken components and do a valve job, pop it back on, re-time, and poof: new engine. It wouldn't take more than a weekend to reassemble it as an armature, if you are mechanically inclined. I did a procedure like this for another car of mine.
Though this is what I would do; the choice is yours and it depends about how much you like your car and a dealership that is ripping you off. $100/hr. is ridiculous; my MB dealership (biggest in PA) is $65/hr and I consider that a lot. Oh yeah, 25 hrs. for labor means incompetence or they are making you a new head out of solid gold.

Good luck on whatever you do,
Dr. Adam T. L. Delecki