Ready for serious 240D performance - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

nickofoxford · #1 05-13-2009, 11:39 PM

Hey guys, what are the best ways to give a 240D some serious performance? I know the most I can probably get out of it is 100hp, but at least I can say I tried.

Before I get the "you're going to kill a good motor" speech.. No, im not. The motor has 385,000 total miles (it was a replacement at some point), serious blow-by, it's overheated 3 or 4 times now, and I have a beautiful OM617 turbo engine with 4 speed tranny waiting to replace the tired 616.

I just want to learn some stuff from the 616 and have a little fun with it. I wouldn't want to try and sell it in the condition it's in. Honestly I just want to run the hell out of it before I drop the 617 in there. What's some good ways to get some (more) black smoke out of it?

Thanks in advance, or for even reading this. I love this place!

pawoSD · #2 05-13-2009, 11:45 PM

You won't be able to. It has no turbo, its a small ancient diesel. 68hp on a good day at sea level. Treat it nice and it will run a lot longer than you think it will. You're not going to get much help here on ideas to "run the heck" out of a poor old engine to kill it. Blow-by means nothing, if it starts up well and runs ok, then it could very likely do another 100k.

You'll never come close to 100hp out of a 616. Even the factory produced turbo version (which has many internal modified parts like the 617 turbo) only makes 91 hp. There is essentially nothing you can do to it to increase power aside from making sure the valves are properly adjusted and the throttle levers move to their full positions. Its already putting out as much power as it is capable. Black smoke is unburned fuel, not more power.

Good luck with all that.

nickofoxford · #3 05-13-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

You won't be able to. It has no turbo, its a small ancient diesel. 68hp on a good day at sea level. Treat it nice and it will run a lot longer than you think it will. You're not going to get much help here on ideas to "run the heck" out of a poor old engine to kill it. Blow-by means nothing, if it starts up well and runs ok, then it could very likely do another 100k.

You'll never come close to 100hp out of a 616. Even the factory produced turbo version (which has many internal modified parts like the 617 turbo) only makes 91 hp.

Good luck with all that.

I knew it would come to this! lmfao

Anyone done propane? ...oxygen? (not at all serious)

rcounts · #4 05-14-2009, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickofoxford

I knew it would come to this! lmfao

Anyone done propane? ...oxygen? (not at all serious)

No, but if you're determined to jack it up and waste it in a hurry, I'll wager a combination of propane and NOS would do it...

On the other hand, you could go ahead and do your 617 swap = and sell the running 616 to someone who needs one for their 240d for a couple of hundred bucks...

pawoSD · #5 05-14-2009, 12:30 AM

Oxygen + Propane are also very dangerous to be playing around with. Plus, expen$ive....why blow lots of money to ruin a motor? Seems pointless. Without more air (turbo) the motor will never make any more power. And with a turbo but no proper modification, the engine would die quickly. So, it is a pointless quest.

mytmousemalibu · #6 05-14-2009, 12:36 AM

Id say it deserves to live!

BUT, it drudged up a hilarious memory!

I had an ex-friend with a 97 1st gen powerstroke dually, turbo non-intercooled. He was always wantin it to be faster. Well without consulting anyone, he had a bright idea to use a nitrous solinoid to spray raw diesel into the intake Y-bridge cuz all a diesel needs for more power is more fuel right? Well he did this and said it ran like a top fueler, blows the tires off and smokes like a burning coal factory! Until 4-5 hit of the "GO" button, it scrambled some pistons up and spit them in the oil pan, LOL. YA, true story!

The injection time and amount is precisely control for a reason there bud! Oh had i wish to have been there VS see the aftermath!

It that actually would work, no one would make power programmers and nitrous solinoids would be on indefinate back-order, hahahahahaha!

#7 05-14-2009, 01:36 AM

Take the turbo set off your 617, block the 5th cylinder ports, set the boost to 14psi, set injection timing to 28*BTDC, set injector pop pressure to 150bar, remove the ADA, remove the pump's rack limiter lever, turn up the torque capsule, set the high idle (redline) to 5700rpm and drive the p!ss out of it. You should get about 115hp.

rcounts · #8 05-14-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Oxygen + Propane are also very dangerous to be playing around with. Plus, expen$ive....why blow lots of money to ruin a motor? Seems pointless, Without more air (turbo) the motor will never make any more power.

Well, that would be the point of the O2 or NOS - it isn't really the AIR that is needed to burn the extra fuel and make more power - it is just the IN the air that is needed - and directly injecting O2 or NOS will provide that oxygen.

The right mix of NOS and propane would provide the desired power boost by adding both fuel and oxygen, and it would do so safely, if only for a short time. The benefit of NOS vs O2 is that it brings the extra oxygen you need to the mix BUT it is safe to tranport a bottle of NOS, whereas it is most definitely NOT safe to haul around a bottle of O2. With NOS the oxygen is only released for use in burning the fuel at the right time and under the right conditions (heat and pressure of the combustion chamber), whereas with straight O2 it is free to burn the fuel - or anything else flammable - like the inside of your vehicle (or you and your family) under any and all conditions.

Unfortunately, even with the right way to meter just the right amount and the right mix of both into the engine, it isn't goint to last very long. With the kind of compression ratio that an NA diesel has to have just to run, adding that much extra "bang" to each combustion event is going to result in the engine grenading in fairly short order. They just aren't built to take that much additional stress for long - especially if it is a bit old and tired to begin with.

rcounts · #9 05-14-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Take the turbo set off your 617, block the 5th cylinder ports, set the boost to 14psi, set injection timing to 28*BTDC, set injector pop pressure to 150bar, remove the ADA, remove the pump's rack limiter lever, turn up the torque capsule, set the high idle (redline) to 5700rpm and drive the p!ss out of it. You should get about 115hp.

LOL! Yeah, for at least a couple of hundred miles! Seems like a lot of work for the amount of time it would last. That's the beauty of the propane & nitrous - it wouldn't last any longer, but it wouldn't take much effort either...

You'd want to start slow and gradually add more of the gasses one at a time a little bit at a time to get it right....

t walgamuth · #10 05-14-2009, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Take the turbo set off your 617, block the 5th cylinder ports, set the boost to 14psi, set injection timing to 28*BTDC, set injector pop pressure to 150bar, remove the ADA, remove the pump's rack limiter lever, turn up the torque capsule, set the high idle (redline) to 5700rpm and drive the p!ss out of it. You should get about 115hp.

I've been pondering putting my spare three hundred turbo motor in my nintey five chebby wagon. Do you think I can do all those things you list and use the car to tow my travel trailer with reliability? The Chebby weighs forty five hundred, the travel trailer weighs forty two hundred. The chebby has a two nintey three rear end and an overdrive tranny that would be left in d for towing. A three twenty three diff is an easy swap as well if needed.

All that you mention looks pretty easy to do, now that you have figured it all out.

I'd rebuild the motor to start with as a base line.

#11 05-14-2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Do you think I can do all those things you list and use the car to tow my travel trailer with reliability?

It definitely wouldn't last long.

t walgamuth · #12 05-14-2009, 06:18 AM

Think I'd have to stay stock for reliability?

#13 05-14-2009, 06:46 AM

I'd at least use a good sized intercooler to keep exhaust temperatures in check, even with stock settings.

It wouldn't hurt to try some of those mods. I wouldn't advance the timing that far or raise the redline though.

t walgamuth · #14 05-14-2009, 07:07 AM

Thanks, forced. If it gets past daydeaming I will be in touch for your expertise!

Graminal95 · #15 05-14-2009, 08:32 AM

As Forced said, put your 617 turbo on and turn up the fuel. I have been driving for over a year and close to 30k miles now with my turbo setup and I have to say its great. I don't think I have 100hp maybe 85-90, but it definitely faster and my MPG's are in the mid 30's all the time.