Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:22 AM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
You mean my car can have NASCAR filtration performance?!

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:26 AM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,189
Here is 2 of the older and extensive Oil Filter Threads I believe others are located in the DIY section.
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=104768&page=5

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=200877&highlight=mann

The point of my starting a new thread was to further demonstrate the fact that the filter companies have been telling us how important filtration is but when you question them they only have a vague idea of how their product performs.
In the case of the 1st post of the thread the manufacture of the Filter did not even know which end of the filter he was speaking of.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Last edited by Diesel911; 05-17-2009 at 01:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-17-2009, 11:46 AM
toomany MBZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Va
Posts: 7,820
Here's what I have in the garage.
Attached Thumbnails
Oil Filter Company Babble, Purolator for 617-oil-filters.jpg  
__________________
83 SD

84 CD
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-17-2009, 11:56 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
The point of my starting a new thread was to further demonstrate the fact that the filter companies have been telling us how important filtration is but when you question them they only have a vague idea of how their product performs.
In the case of the 1st post of the thread the manufacture of the Filter did not even know which end of the filter he was speaking of.
Most of them are resellers. They have no more understanding of that filter than the retards behind the counter at Pep-Boys.

You would need to find the actual manufacturer of the filter, and, the data given by them is also misleading. A single data point as to what the filter will stop is subject to wide interpretation. Without an explanation of the data point, they can manipulate it to whatever they choose.

We continue to go round and round about the oil filters without any firm conclusions regarding their performance.

In my own investigations, I found the OE filters to be the cleanest of the bunch and I use them on both the 617 and 603, but I'd be the first to agree that my data is far from scientific.

I've also cut open the Purolator and that filter is pure junk IMHO.

If you really want to get some serious filtration, use a separate low flow bypass filter that filters well below any stock filter that must handle high flow rates. All remaining discussion on the factory filter is just BS.........no way to get serious data.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:10 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Most of them are resellers. They have no more understanding of that filter than the retards behind the counter at Pep-Boys.

You would need to find the actual manufacturer of the filter, and, the data given by them is also misleading. A single data point as to what the filter will stop is subject to wide interpretation. Without an explanation of the data point, they can manipulate it to whatever they choose.

We continue to go round and round about the oil filters without any firm conclusions regarding their performance.

In my own investigations, I found the OE filters to be the cleanest of the bunch and I use them on both the 617 and 603, but I'd be the first to agree that my data is far from scientific.

I've also cut open the Purolator and that filter is pure junk IMHO.

If you really want to get some serious filtration, use a separate low flow bypass filter that filters well below any stock filter that must handle high flow rates. All remaining discussion on the factory filter is just BS.........no way to get serious data.
I think we have some info to come to some conclusion (I suppose we would need our own test setup to know for sure). Both the WIX and Purolator say their filter down to greater than the 30 Nomina Micron level (meaning their filters filter out about 50% of the 30 Micron or greater particles on the 1st pass through the filter; this is an older ISO testing/rating system). For their full flow sections of the OIl Filter.

With this and the info from the other threads we know that the above filters allow larger particles to pass through them than some of the other companies. List below was provided by DeliveryValve in a past thread:
Wix -
Full flow section 32 microns.
Noted here by M-shop member moonlite in this post and this post2 http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=1769679&postcount=27.
No bypass section.

Mann-
Full flow section 27 microns
Noted here by M-shop member SUNRG in this post3 http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=1631334&postcount=1
By pass is undetermined

Fram -
Full flow section 25 microns
Note by M-shop member moonlite in this Post4 http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=1769672&postcount=26
By pass is undetermined.

Mahle -
Full flow section 22 microns
Noted M-shop member moonlite on this Post5 http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=1769849&postcount=31
By pass is undetermined.

Baldwin -
Full flow section 18 microns
By pass section is 15 microns
Noted by M-shop member diesel911 on this Post6 http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=1773905&postcount=146

We still cannot get info from the companies that use Cotton gin in their bypass sections to tell us what micron level this media filters to.
But, there is at least some info to make a decision from.

Without us going "round and round" the above info would unknow to us.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 05-17-2009 at 01:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:19 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,189
I forgot to ad that I do have a bypass Oil Filter on my car. This allows you to be less picky about what Oil Filter you buy but I still would not want a Filter with a 30+ Nominal Micron rating. It lookes like the Mahle filter is the most easily available filter with the next to the lowest Micron rating in the full Flow sections.
I have been using mostly Bosch Filters but they never answered my Emails concerning their filters.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:22 PM
oldsinner111's Avatar
lied to for years
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Elizabethton, TN
Posts: 6,249
Purolator also made a secondary fuel filter which was longer,and a little wider.Boy they were good,but they have gone to a smaller one made in India.
I still perfer Purolator primary fuel filters,than the German ones.I've seen black diesel slime go thru a German primary,and get caught by a purolator primary.In fact I use two primaries to protect my electric boost pump(a must in these thar hills).
__________________
1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:33 PM
Oldwolf's Avatar
124.128/602.962/722.418
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,017
Well...I can see I chose the worst filter of the bunch for my first oil change on my new to me 93 300D. Next time I'll go with a Mahle or Bosch. Who makes the Bosch anyway?
__________________
1993 W124 300D 2.5L Turbo, OM602.962
2000 Chevrolet Cavalier, 2.4L DOHC
2002 Ford Explorer, 4.0L SOHC
2005 Toyota Prius, 1.5L

http://www.fuelly.com/sig-us/40601.png

Last edited by Oldwolf; 05-17-2009 at 06:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:53 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I think we have some info to come to some conclusion (I suppose we would need our own test setup to know for sure). Both the WIX and Purolator say their filter down to greater than the 30 Nomina Micron level (meaning their filters filter out about 50% of the 30 Micron or greater particles on the 1st pass through the filter........
It's a good looking set of data. However, some of the claims are without any qualifying statements such as "nominal". Can you believe the statement from Baldwin.........or are they measuring to a different standard?

And, if the statement from Baldwin is true, can you quantify the difference in engine longevity by the difference between 18 microns and 30 microns though the full flow section?

The bypass filtering is the most important part of the filter and that level of performance is certainly unknown for most of them.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-17-2009, 06:45 PM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
We still cannot get info from the companies that use Cotton gin in their bypass sections to tell us what micron level this media filters to.
Thats because they don't filter. The nature of packed cotton gin waste is that no matter how tightly you pack, there will still be channels for oil to flow through unfiltered. With a 2mm orifice the flow through it is slow enough for the oil to easily find the least restrictive path.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-17-2009, 10:16 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldwolf View Post
Well...I can see I chose the worst filter of the bunch for my first oil change on my new to me 93 300D. Next time I'll go with a Mahle or Bosch. Who makes the Bosch anyway?
The above data only applies to Oil Filters for 617 type Engines and does not cross over to the newer Engines/Models.

I have read that the Bosch Oil Filters for the 617 Engines are also made in India. However, none of the ones I have used are marked with the country they were made anywhere on the box or the filter itself so I am not sure where mine were made.
Also I have cut the Bosch Filters apart and the appear to be of the same quality as the Mann and Mahle filters I took apart.
In fact the Bosch looked the same as one of the other 2 filters. I cannot remember which one. It had the same colored glue holding the media in and the same metal piece crimping the papper media together were the ends met.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-18-2009, 04:38 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,189
Interesting news.
I questioned Purolator again concerning the Micron Level that the Bypass Section of the filter filtered to and apparently they are going to test it to find out!
Text From Email:
"will see what I can do to get one tested. It may take a week or two because I will probably have to make a special fixture for our test stand to adapt this filter. Basically what I am going to try to do is cut the full flow portion off of the filter and test only the bypass section. This will give us the most accurate results. Hopefully its not too restrictive for the test stand without the full flow portion of the filter. Ill let you know when I get results."
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-18-2009, 07:37 PM
Oldwolf's Avatar
124.128/602.962/722.418
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
The above data only applies to Oil Filters for 617 type Engines and does not cross over to the newer Engines/Models.
Is it? I am not sure, The Purolator I recently installed in my OM602 was made in India and "looks" similar even though the number is different.

Even so, I don't think I'll use the Purolator next time. However, they probably are being used all over Asia with great success.
__________________
1993 W124 300D 2.5L Turbo, OM602.962
2000 Chevrolet Cavalier, 2.4L DOHC
2002 Ford Explorer, 4.0L SOHC
2005 Toyota Prius, 1.5L

http://www.fuelly.com/sig-us/40601.png
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-18-2009, 11:10 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldwolf View Post
Is it? I am not sure, The Purolator I recently installed in my OM602 was made in India and "looks" similar even though the number is different.

Even so, I don't think I'll use the Purolator next time. However, they probably are being used all over Asia with great success.
My experience in Asia with Vehicles represents 2 months in the Philipines. As far as private parties go if a car runs at all, and moves and, stops most of the time it is considered a good car.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-19-2009, 12:13 AM
dieseldiehard's Avatar
Dieseldiehard
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bay Area No Calif.
Posts: 4,368
I had a stock of 617 Purolator filters that were made in Turkey, no one mentioned that in the thread unless I missed something. These were wound out of cotton yarn as I recall.
does anyone else remember them? I am about out of them now so looking to
restock, last time they were on special and someone posted a coupon which I was able to print out and carry in to ? AUtozone I believe.
Otherwise I'd use Mahle. Never had a problem with one but don;t like the idea of cotton gin waste
OOPS! change manufacturers name to FRAM, not Purolator! I will vote for Fram made in Turkey as my preferred 617 filter

__________________
'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!

Last edited by dieseldiehard; 05-20-2009 at 04:45 PM. Reason: goofed name
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page