Ultra-low sulfur diesel - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

602 Pilot · #16 05-23-2009, 08:24 PM

We are all ears FI. I do not disagree with you, but the jury is still out with me. I may be asking you to prove a negative. If so, the world may never know.

#17 05-23-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 602 Pilot

I may be asking you to prove a negative.

Its very easy to do that. There are millions of old engines still running great without problems on straight-ULSD. Fleets don't use additives, their drivers fill up at the pump and drive. If there was a mass of failures related to poor fuel lubricity it would put the country to a standstill. My job has a 6BTA Cummins powered 1998 Ottowa yard truck with the original VP44 injection pump and 6,000 hard hours on its clock. The vast majority of MB diesels here and around the country still have the original pump and very few use any additives, myself included.

The simple fact is if there was anything worse than marketing hype, there would have been millions of sudden pump failures back in 2006 when ULSD was phased in. The reality is that all mechanical devices have a failure rate, a few bad apples. Pumps can fail from age, wear, contaminated fuel, driver abuse, improper repair and any number of things. The few random and isolated individuals that do have an IP failure or leaking DV seals are pointing their finger at ULSD as a scapegoat because they either have no clue what they are doing or are just looking for the easiest answer.

The refinery uses its own additives to bring the raw fuel up to the set standard and the buyers also add their own brand of additive package as its being loaded to the tanker. If either of those steps is missed it would have major repercussions through insurance claims, lawsuits, negative publicity and lost revenue for the refinery and/or filling station.

So even before you add your 2-stroke oil, the fuel has already had at least two rounds of additives put into it!

dieseldiehard · #18 05-23-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Sorry, that is in no way related to ULSD. Nailing is affected by timing, injector spray pattern, pop pressure, fuel cetane and temperature. Rebuilding your IP would do as little as Redline does.

Nailing has nothing to do with lubricity or sulfur.

Guess you didn't consider all the possibilities before snapping off with that remark, You think you are some kind of Apostle or something?

let me provide a few details then I hope that you shuffle off to Buffalo.
The IP had water in the fuel, it sat for 2 years. We believe one of the passageways that meters fuel is probably rusty, the pistons are not fitting properly -WHATEVER. Cold it nails bad on that cylinder, warm it still has a propensity to do so. Adding Catalyst reduces this tendency hot, not cold. Rebuilt injectors and cracking the lines still indicated the same cylinders.
Reman head. New rings, same deal. Capiche?
I did not advocate additives for USLD, only to rebut that your statement that they were of no use

#19 05-23-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

Guess you didn't consider all the possibilities before snapping off with that remark

Actually, I did. I knew ULSD was not your problem.

Quote:

Cold it nails bad on that cylinder, warm it still has a propensity to do so. Adding Catalyst reduces this tendency hot, not cold. Rebuilt injectors and cracking the lines still indicated the same cylinders.
Reman head. New rings, same deal. Capiche?

None of those things you did actually fixed the problem, a damaged pump. Redline reduced nailing from the increased cetane.

The pump on my 300D has the sme problem as yours. #5 nails, stops when the line is cracked and new injectors, adjusting timing, diesel purge, etc didn't fix the problem. But when the glowplugs are activated with the engine already running, the nailing goes away until they turn off.

Quote:

I did not advocate additives for USLD, only to rebut that your statement that they were of no use

They are of no use, harmful in your case. Instead of fixing the problem, the results of using redline has convinced you to put off proper repair and allow the bad pump to continue doing damage. Just because you can't hear it nailing doesn't mean the problem has gone away. Band-aids don't heal wounds.

What am I doing to my 300D that is in your same situation? I'm parking it until I get the gaskets and a 32-spline socket so I can replace the bad pump with my euro M-pump.

602 Pilot · #20 05-24-2009, 12:00 AM

Thank you FI, I wanted to hear your side. My C8.3 (Motorhome) seems to be doing well on it so far, and the 602 as well. Most of my experience is with heavy equipment (maintenance tech) , and that ended about a year ago. They had cut the sulfur somewhat, but had yet to go to the ultra low.... I'm not even sure when that is coming anymore, or has it already? Anyway, I had seen no increased failure rates in my small sampling. (About 300 machines) I work in a bookstore at the Grand Canyon now, so I have no idea what is happening in the real world.

Cr from Texas · #21 05-24-2009, 12:05 AM

The only thing I have observed in the last two years with ULSD is shorter life of my rubber return lines. That would be consistent with the lower aromatic content.

602 Pilot · #22 05-24-2009, 12:13 AM

Hell, I thought that meant it didn't smell as pretty!

TMAllison · #23 05-24-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cr from Texas

The only thing I have observed in the last two years with ULSD is shorter life of my rubber return lines. That would be consistent with the lower aromatic content.

This is the main issue with changes in fuel types. The aromatic chemicals used in each differ and effect rubber components casuing them to shrink or harden. Occured when LSD hit the market and again with ULSD. Will occur when super duper extra-ultra low sulfur fuel arrives in the future too.

TMAllison · #24 05-24-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compress ignite

[ALERT this is a RePost] [All Ostriches to conceal craniums]

PURPOSE
The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) is issuing this information notice (IN) to alert
licensees to the potential for new ultra-low-sulfur diesel (ULSD) fuel oil to adversely impact
engine performance. It is expected that recipients will review the information for applicability to
their facilities and consider actions, as appropriate, to avoid similar problems. However,
suggestions contained in this IN are not NRC requirements; therefore, no specific action or
written response is required.

Yes.....its safe to come out of the bunker. The world did not end. The important parts of the multi post article are highlighted above. It is simply a mission critical alert to mitigate possible issues.

compress ignite · #25 05-25-2009, 02:50 PM

http://web.missouri.edu/~schumacherl/Lubricating_Qualities_of_Biodiesel_and_Biodiesel_Blends.pdf

Outofworkjoe · #26 05-25-2009, 03:06 PM

Humm very good,any words on this?

Matt L · #27 05-25-2009, 03:13 PM

Where did I read that B2 had better lubricity than petrodiesel? This study belies that claim.

TMAllison · #28 05-25-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outofworkjoe

Humm very good,any words on this?

It is only appicable IF one believed the ASTM specifications for ULSD (and LSD preceeding it) are insufficient to begin with.

MB's stance on additives to my knowledge remains unchanged.

#29 05-25-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outofworkjoe

Humm very good,any words on this?

Terry has it. Biodiesel is always a great choice, as long as it meets ASTM standards. The station selling it should have those papers on file. But, its not worth it if you have to pay significantly more than normal D2. Stations around here charge 20¢-50¢ more per gallon for B20

Jeremy5848 · #30 05-25-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Terry has it. Biodiesel is always a great choice, as long as it meets ASTM standards. The station selling it should have those papers on file. But, its not worth it if you have to pay significantly more than normal D2. Stations around here charge 20¢-50¢ more per gallon for B20

Agreed. Here in Santa Rosa, we are lucky, one of the [local small-scale chain] "Rotten Robbie" stations sells B20 for the same price as D2. B100 from the other local suppliers is about $1.50/gallon extra, a steep price to pay and not as green as one would like since it has to be hauled in all the way from the Midwest in RR tank cars.

One nice thing about B20 (or higher) blends is that it gets rid of the "diesel stink," which pleases my wife. For those of you who like the "diesel stink," my apologies.

Jeremy