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1990 300D 2.5 Turbo 150k miles 1999 F250 7.3L Powerstroke 225k miles 22mpg Intro Thread |
#17
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GRRRRR!
Anyone want to buy a nice looking W124 300D? I feel like I spend all this time reading, and trying to figure out what to do next, and then I spend Saturday after Saturday and lots of money, only to get nowhere. I'm ready to through a granade under the car. I guess this is all "learning curve" as a newb to diesel land, but man it is frustrating. So today, I took out all the new injectors, and put the ones that came with the car back in. No difference, still a rough idle, and a bunch of loud injector nailing. I then took all the Injector pump valves back out, and inspected them one at a time. I made sure that all the small orifices were open and I cleaned everything off with fresh clean diesel. Everything looked alright as far as I can tell. Spend another 7 hours of a perfectly good Saturday with no results. If I waste too many more of these Saturdays the car is gonna have to go. I want a nice, reliable, economic diesel driver, not a restoration project... I in Tehachapi between Bakersfield and the Antelope valley, so if any wants a 1990 300D let me know!
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1990 300D 2.5 Turbo 150k miles 1999 F250 7.3L Powerstroke 225k miles 22mpg Intro Thread |
#18
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Mercedes-eese
1.R+R (ed) "Remove and Replace"
2.Delivery Valves Below is a Pictogram of a Delivery Valve (That lives inside your Injection Pump) [Your Injection Pump has 5 of them] The parts labeled "K" and "G" have an established relationship to each other... (In other words ,If you took them out of the Delivery Valve Holder and rotated EITHER one in it's relationship to the other...you will have "Rumpity Bumpity" at idle as a result.THEY MUST BE replaced in EXACTLY the same alignment to each other as you found them!) Also part "G" has the same sort of relationship to the Delivery Valve Holder that it "Sits" in. (There is also a "slot and lever" arrangement that MUST be fitted Exactly) SO ,Both of those parts MUST be in exactly the same position as you found them. 7h (Rubber O-Ring) AND 7f (Copper Sealing Ring) [AND 7i ,If you listen to the Factory Service Manual ] should be replaced WITHOUT disturbing "K" + "G". The Copper Sealing Washer 7f is a "One Time Use Only". "Torquing Down" the "7" (Pressure Valve Holder) Distorts the washer and it will not seal properly again.[This MAY be the source of your problem] The FSM does not go into these details. Assuming "G" 's relationship to the Fuel Rack inside the Injection Pump has not been altered...The other components MAY reestablish their "Lapped" relationship over time. EDIT: side note...I would not touch anything that can leave residue (either chemical ,cloth fibers , or "OTHER") to the internal parts of the Injection Pump.
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'84 300SD sold 124.128 Last edited by compress ignite; 06-07-2009 at 03:43 PM. |
#19
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Parrot of Doom's DV O-Ring R+R Illustrated Tutorial
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'84 300SD sold 124.128 Last edited by compress ignite; 06-08-2009 at 06:29 PM. |
#20
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Testing for air suck...
One quick way to check this, look at your clear fuel filter, how big is the bubble? I recently had problems like you describe after some fuel system tinkering (injectors etc., but not DV) If you have much more than a small bubble, you are leaking air. I realized mine was over half full of air. I was at about 1/4 tank at the time. I filled up and cracked the line loose downstream of the filter. The filter filled up with fuel, and stayed full, and the car straightened right up. I will be changing my tank screen when I run low on fuel again. I am also in the SW (Northern AZ) I replaced all of my rubber lines first thing. They were hard as a rock and brittle. One could easily be cracked, or not making a good seal to a hard line. It sounds like you may have already taken care of that. Also, did you change your filters AFTER your purge, if so, fine, if not...I'd try it. Best of Luck, JDC
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1990 124,128 602,962 Beware the hobby that eats. Benjamin Franklin |
#21
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Could be the air issue, although it's not super likely. Check the O-ring on the fuel heater thermostat (round widget below the pump with 4 fuel hose fittings), that's a common leak. Usually it leaks fuel as a warning sign. It's also possible you hosed up one of the delivery valves while replacing the O-rings. Might be worth loosening them up and re-torqueing with the factory 3-stage procedure, which is 30Nm, release, 30Nm, release, final torque 35Nm. Again, a long shot, but worth a try.
Engine mounts are also a likely candidate for a "rough" engine idle. You can measure them and see if they need replacement, click here, skip to page 3 and 4. New Boge mounts are ~$100/pair. This engine is also known for defective timing chains installed from the factory. You must check the chain stretch, and if it's past the 4° limit, I'd highly recommend chain replacement. Click here to read the factory TSB, which shows how to check chain stretch. A worn chain will also retard pump timing, so check that too, but if you're gonna replace the chain... that will advance pump timing. So you need to check pump timing before & after, and make sure it's in spec. My 300D 2.5T smoked & was slow when I first bought it, but after a new chain & adjusting IP timing, it gradually returned to normal. And that's with old, stock injectors. I hate to say it, but unless the injectors were REALLY bad, or damaged... new ones rarely make a big difference. I still haven't replaced mine. They pop tested ok, not great, just ok. Don't forget the replace the injector heat shields when R&R'ing injectors... see photo below for the reason why: Best regards, |
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SKA-ROOOD
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So here is what I did, I bought this kit from **************.com (before I knew of or found this site) O-ring kite with insructions Unfortunately, it does mention in the instruction to "note the orientation" of the valve" before it is removed, but I thought as I read it that they were talking about the holding plates on the valve body and had no idea that the internal piston was what was being discussed. Also in the instuctions of the kit, it doesn't go into detail at all about the tourqueing process. So the second time I have pulled the DV valves (yesterday) I reused washers that were never set right in the first place. So here I am now. I've probably spent 4+ hours reading all sorts of things on this forum and site, but I don't know what to do next, knowing that I have upset the relative positions of the internal valve piston and seat. I only removed one DV at a time, so I know that the pistions and part 7g weren't intermixed, but I have no clue on their rotational indexing. I guess my next attempt is to buy a set of new copper orings, and injector heat shields, open up the DV and see if I can guess the lapped positions by close inspection (probably imposible) reseat the used older injectors, send out the new ones to be pop tested, and then reinstall the new ones after pop testing with new Copper and heat shields. The car runs SOOO bad right now, I think I will trash something else if I ran it much like it is. After yesterdays failed attempt it runs even worse, so each time I attempt to fix the beast she gets more upset. To make matters worse, while I was test driving after hooking everything back up, the chair adjust botton on the inside of the door broke, probably out of spite because she is being abused so much. The older injectors are really nailing too. Is the DV try even worth it if I don't know the orientation? If this doesn't work, does that mean injector pump replacement? The mercedes source says nothing about the torque process for the reinstall, so I'm really frustrated about that. For pop testing the injectors, about how much (average guess is fine) does that cost o have a set done? Is it worth it to buy this kit for $300? I mean if inectors last as long as everyone tells me they do, then I probably won't be re-popping any inejctors anytime soon so $300 doesn't really sound a like a practical tool purchase? Injector pop test kit with shims Is there any way to reset the DV internals by relapping, or is that way beyond the scope of most average DIY folk? Quote:
P.S. for others who may benefit from my mistakes in the futre, here are a bunch of good resources for DV fixes, methods and resources: Mercedes Source Oring Kit Mercedes Source Injector pop test kit Manual page for Replaceing Delivery Valve Good peachparts thread about nailing injectors and the first place I realized I was screwed! This quote came from the above post and describes my conditions exactly: Quote:
Leaking Delivery Valve DIY article on this website!! Oh had I found this site sooner....GRRR Crush Washer Thread
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1990 300D 2.5 Turbo 150k miles 1999 F250 7.3L Powerstroke 225k miles 22mpg Intro Thread |
#23
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P.S. where is eveyrone's favorite place to buy MB parts? I couldn't find the DV copper washers on this site's shop, and shopping suggestions to make sure I get the right parts as the navigation is tedious and painful
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1990 300D 2.5 Turbo 150k miles 1999 F250 7.3L Powerstroke 225k miles 22mpg Intro Thread |
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1990 300D 2.5 Turbo 150k miles 1999 F250 7.3L Powerstroke 225k miles 22mpg Intro Thread |
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It's actually "C Sean Watts". Dyslexics have more nuf. ;-) |
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Agian, anyone know the best place to buy the copper washers? I couldn't find them on fastlane under the fuel injection section.
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1990 300D 2.5 Turbo 150k miles 1999 F250 7.3L Powerstroke 225k miles 22mpg Intro Thread |
#27
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Also, GSXR mentioned the timing chain. These 2.5's had a recall on the chain as they are prone to stretch. Mine was 14 degrees off but somehow hung together until I replaced it. Would probably be prudent to check yours as it will definitely affect idle and power! Good luck! Klaus
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‘84 300TD “Mountain Goat” '62 300d Adenauer-350 Chevy - "Max" '15 VW Passat TDI '16 Dodge Ram 3500 - Cummins w/6-speed '68 Mustang fastback '55 T-bird ‘63 Studebaker Hawk Last edited by klaus kallas; 06-08-2009 at 05:31 PM. |
#28
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Where is FI, he has all kinds of things to say about Mercedes Source....
I think scam artist sums it all up.
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http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg 1995 E420 Schwarz 1995 E300 Weiss #1987 300D Sturmmachine #1991 300D Nearly Perfect #1994 E320 Cabriolet #1995 E320 Touring #1985 300D Sedan OBK #42 |
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On a related note, there are a couple of MB parts places that I do NOT like... first and foremost is Adsit Co., they are terrible - no matter how cheap their price may be, do not do business with them. The gory details are in a separate thread on this forum. Mercedes Source is not exactly one of my favorites either, the fellow seems to be reputable and all, but his prices are pretty steep. I know he includes really nice instructions, but sheesh... that $70 delivery valve kit is a good example. Fifteen bucks (tops) in parts, so the other $55 is for the instructions? Ouch! Can't fault the guy for trying to make a buck though. If the instructions left out the 3-stage torque procedure, and the note about not disturbing the internal parts... that would make me question the completeness of teh instructions for his other kits as well. Disclaimer: I have a wholesale account with a dealership, and buy 90% of my parts through them... the other 10% is from aftermarket vendors (only if there is a significant price differential). |
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