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  #46  
Old 06-15-2009, 03:04 PM
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Don't do it.

MB's are so much more satisfying to drive.

However, I am the only one that relies on mine so it doesn't bother me too much to have to work on it and schedule my life around my car maintenance schedule.

And, yes, I do schedule my life around my car maintenance schedule.

Is that wrong?

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  #47  
Old 06-15-2009, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Here is my current 300D squawk list. After making this list, that Passat is starting to sound better and better...hmmm
You'd have to do half this stuff to a used Passat anyway (cooling system, fan belt, timing belt, etc). All you would do is trade one project for another, unless you buy a brand-new (or almost-new) car with factory warranty remaining. Just fix the Mercedes, and it will be fine for the next 50-100kmi. All the stuff mentioned below is relatively low cost - not like you need a new transmission or engine or something:
  • Sunvisor Clip replace (one broken) - Simple fix.
  • Electirc Cooling fan (front of the radiator doesn't turn on) - When do you expect it to turn on?
  • Injector nozzle replace and pop test - Why? Is there a problem?
  • Injector hard line clips and support rail re-install - Simple fix.
  • Replace leaking valve cover grommet - Simple fix.
  • Replace Fan clutch - Are you sure it's defective?
  • Replace water pump (already purchased) - Good preventive maintenance
  • Flush radiator - Good preventive maintenance
  • Replace fan belt - Good preventive maintenance
  • Get engine to run smoothly- Chain & IP timing must be checked first.
  • clean out the alda fitting - Simple fix.
  • Vacuum leak check - Simple fix.
  • Adjust tranny shift (shift hard) - Usually a simple fix (vacuum leak)
  • Install new hood pad (already bought) - Simple fix.
  • Front End has a shimmy (thinking threw a wheel weight) - Simple fix.
  • Turbo by-pass mod - Only needed if you want to eliminate EGR.
  • Install new glow plugs (already bought) - Not needed unless one or more have failed.

Just my $0.02...

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  #48  
Old 06-16-2009, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
  • Sunvisor Clip replace (one broken) - Simple fix.
  • Install new hood pad (already bought) - Simple fix.
  • Front End has a shimmy (thinking threw a wheel weight) - Simple fix.
I agree, totally doable, not high $ amounts, but even all of these "simple fixes" doing it the first time they ad up and take a lot of time and planning on finding the right freaking part, and then dealing with the hassle of sending it back when it is not the right one since I can't simply go over to Autozone and pick most of this stuff up. One big hassle about living so far from everything



Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
  • Electirc Cooling fan (front of the radiator doesn't turn on) - When do you expect it to turn on?
  • Flush radiator - Good preventive maintenance
  • Replace fan belt - Good preventive maintenance
  • Replace Fan clutch - Are you sure it's defective?
  • Replace water pump (already purchased) - Good preventive maintenance
- The car is always running hot and I have to watch out on long up hills at freeway speed. I already replaced the thermostat, and need to buy the right tools to R&R the fan clutch and fan, and service the radiator. I'm not sure if the clutch is defective, but pretty sure as even near 120 degrees C, the fan still spins for 5-10 seconds after shut down.

I figured the electic fans in front of the radiator should turn on once the engine gets to a warmer temprature. My car almost always runs at or above 100 degrees C. Even when the engine gets close to 120 degrees, the electric fans don't turn on, when are they supposed to turn on? Does one turn on with the AC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
  • Injector nozzle replace and pop test - Why? Is there a problem?
  • Injector hard line clips and support rail re-install - Simple fix.
  • Get engine to run smoothly- Chain & IP timing must be checked first.
  • clean out the alda fitting - Simple fix.
Car is running like crap, no matter how many Saturdays and evenings I spend reading, and fixing, I get different advice on what preventative maintainence I need to do first. The whole first two pages on this post is about how important it is to get injectors pop tested. My car is nailing pretty bad and running rough, I'm trying to figure it all out.

I'm trying to work through all the issues, but I spend alot of time on this car, and I haven't been able to quickly address the probelms. I plan on checking the timing chain during the next few days when I get a few hours of time. I don't have an account with a dealer getting wholesale prices so all of these little nick-nack parts add up when you paying full rip off retail for them. (So how do I get one? )



Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
  • Vacuum leak check - Simple fix.
  • Adjust tranny shift (shift hard) - Usually a simple fix (vacuum leak)
  • Turbo by-pass mod - Only needed if you want to eliminate EGR
  • Replace leaking valve cover grommet - Simple fix.
Car shifts like crap, after reading everything, I figured I need to get the engine running right before I trouble shoot the tranny shifting hard and late.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
  • Install new glow plugs (already bought) - Not needed unless one or more have failed.
I read that this was a good maintenence item every 150k miles. I don't always know who to beleive when I read stuff on a forum. I do think you are pretty credible as it seems you are very commited to this model and year, and you seem to really know what you are talking about.

Just as an example about fixing a "simple" fix, changing the water pump is not typically a challening task, but it turns out I need a $80 pump from germany, 2-3 specialty tools to get the fan clutch on and off, and replace the fan with a later model mod to make it worth while and cost effective. I agree, not too hard, but buying the tools to do the job once in the next 100k miles still is irratating.

I'm sorry I'm ranting, I'm excited about this car turning into what I hope it can be, my wife is just giving me lots of crap altely about this car, and after yesterday and previous few big car failures (front ball joint failure was a biggie about 4 months ago) I'm losing credibility with all the time I'm spending on it. I hope to make it to a junk yard tommorrow (1 hour away) to remove the hard lines from a donor car. I'm ordering the fuel line clips tonight. I plan on pulling the intake crossover tommorrow and then valve cover so I can check the timing during the next few days. Wish me luck and thanks for your encouragement. It does help me hope that the car will be cool.
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  #49  
Old 06-16-2009, 03:25 AM
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Here is a video of me checking the fan clutch at 120 degrees C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QohSp4j70s
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  #50  
Old 06-16-2009, 11:54 AM
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Rocket,

Offer still stands. I've also got a spare IP if you need it, though I'm not sure how well it works.

Dana
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  #51  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:02 PM
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Thanks Dana,
I'm not ready to call it quits yet, but I'm happy to know that there is place nearby that if I get totally frustrated I can go to your recommended shop. How does one verify that the injection pump is good? I'm going to check the timing over the next day or two, and then revist the rough idle after that.
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  #52  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I agree, totally doable, not high $ amounts, but even all of these "simple fixes" doing it the first time they ad up and take a lot of time and planning on finding the right freaking part, and then dealing with the hassle of sending it back when it is not the right one since I can't simply go over to Autozone and pick most of this stuff up. One big hassle about living so far from everything
You just need to educate yourself a bit. Learn to use the EPC to get the part numbers, order them online, they get delivered to your door. Finding time to do the work is a valid concern of course, but again, any car out of warranty will have the same issue (but likely not with the safety of a Mercedes). I feel better knowing my family is in a Benz, especially with all the idiots out there driving while yakking on the phone, or texting, or drunk, or all of the above. The probablility of surviving a serious crash in a Passat is, IMO, a lot lower. But that's a different discussion.




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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
The car is always running hot and I have to watch out on long up hills at freeway speed. I already replaced the thermostat, and need to buy the right tools to R&R the fan clutch and fan, and service the radiator. I'm not sure if the clutch is defective, but pretty sure as even near 120 degrees C, the fan still spins for 5-10 seconds after shut down.
I assume it was an OE/OEM thermostat, Wahler or Behr, right? But yes, that sure sounds like a defective fan clutch. I would still pull the radiator and make 100% sure that airflow isn't blocked (by bugs, dirt, other debris) in front of the clutch though. Based on some recent experiences, I think upgrading to the 606 turbo fan clutch may be a smart move - the fact it's cheaper is a bonus. The video you posted shows the clutch is definitely NOT engaged when you shut off the engine.




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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I figured the electic fans in front of the radiator should turn on once the engine gets to a warmer temprature. My car almost always runs at or above 100 degrees C. Even when the engine gets close to 120 degrees, the electric fans don't turn on, when are they supposed to turn on? Does one turn on with the AC?
The electric fans turn on low speed based on AC refrigerant pressure (the red switch at the drier, behind the driver's headlight). Short the leads of the red switch, the fan should turn on low speed. The fans turn on high speed based on the signal from a temp sensor on the cylinder head (it's a sensor, not a switch!). At about 105°C, the fans should be on high speed. If not, you have a fan problem - could be the fuse, relay, fan motors, sensor, etc. Not too hard to troubleshoot though.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Car is running like crap, no matter how many Saturdays and evenings I spend reading, and fixing, I get different advice on what preventative maintainence I need to do first. The whole first two pages on this post is about how important it is to get injectors pop tested. My car is nailing pretty bad and running rough, I'm trying to figure it all out.
Nailing would seem to indicate the injectors should be pop tested. Rough running does NOT automatically mean you need new injectors. I've mentioned before that the early 90's have issues with stretched timing chains... you need to check that first, before wasting time & money on red herrings. Besides, in the video you posted below, the engine doesn't sound bad, at least at idle.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I'm trying to work through all the issues, but I spend alot of time on this car, and I haven't been able to quickly address the probelms. I plan on checking the timing chain during the next few days when I get a few hours of time. I don't have an account with a dealer getting wholesale prices so all of these little nick-nack parts add up when you paying full rip off retail for them. (So how do I get one? )
Good move on the timing chain! Dealer wholesale - send me a PM or email for info.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Car shifts like crap, after reading everything, I figured I need to get the engine running right before I trouble shoot the tranny shifting hard and late.
Correct. The tranny shifts entirely based on throttle position. If your foot is way into the throttle, it will always shift hard and late.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I read that this was a good maintenence item every 150k miles. I don't always know who to beleive when I read stuff on a forum.
Well if you have the time & money, sure, it's a good idea. But otherwise, replace glow plugs in sets, when one fails. At least that's been my experience. If you know for certain the plugs are old or original, and will have the intake removed for other work, it would be a good idea to just go ahead and change them though.




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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Just as an example about fixing a "simple" fix, changing the water pump is not typically a challening task, but it turns out I need a $80 pump from germany, 2-3 specialty tools to get the fan clutch on and off, and replace the fan with a later model mod to make it worth while and cost effective. I agree, not too hard, but buying the tools to do the job once in the next 100k miles still is irratating.
Actually, the fan clutch tools come in handy for many other things. You will want to pull that fan clutch out any time you work on the front of the engine - serpentine belt, alternator, vacuum pump, belt tensioner, etc. The tools are money well spent, and the same tools work on all OM60x diesels, as well as the M119/M120 gas engines. If you sell your MB and do not buy another, you can re-sell the tools and recoup much of your investment.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I'm sorry I'm ranting, I'm excited about this car turning into what I hope it can be, my wife is just giving me lots of crap altely about this car, and after yesterday and previous few big car failures (front ball joint failure was a biggie about 4 months ago) I'm losing credibility with all the time I'm spending on it. I hope to make it to a junk yard tommorrow (1 hour away) to remove the hard lines from a donor car. I'm ordering the fuel line clips tonight. I plan on pulling the intake crossover tommorrow and then valve cover so I can check the timing during the next few days. Wish me luck and thanks for your encouragement. It does help me hope that the car will be cool.
No worries, the rant is understandable. It does highlight the old adage, "nothing is more expensive than a cheap Mercedes". Or, why it pays to spend top dollar for a car that is mechanically perfect, even if it's way over market value. I'd probably sell my '93 300D for $10k, but I doubt anyone would want to pay that, even though it is near perfect mechanically (and has a couple rare options as well). It wasn't that way when I bought it, but now I've fixed everything!


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  #53  
Old 06-16-2009, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
You just need to educate yourself a bit. Learn to use the EPC to get the part numbers, order them online, they get delivered to your door.... The probablility of surviving a serious crash in a Passat is, IMO, a lot lower. But that's a different discussion.
Agreed, my wife thinks the Passat is much "cooler" I like the Benz better, but I figured I could settle on a Passat since there is a diesel version. I also agree on your comment about "tradeing projects" Where do I buy a EPC and how much does it cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
I assume it was an OE/OEM thermostat, Wahler or Behr, right?
It was a Behr T-stat

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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
I think upgrading to the 606 turbo fan clutch may be a smart move - the fact it's cheaper is a bonus. The video you posted shows the clutch is definitely NOT engaged when you shut off the engine.
606 clutch Mod upgrade is on the squawk list, I hope to do the radiator flush, citris descale, new waterpump install and new fan, and new fan belt when I get the pully holding tool. Is there anything else I should check while I have the front of the engine opened all up? Also the engine side fan shroud is missing its lower half, is it important to replace this to get proper air flow through the radiator? I'm guessing it would help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
At about 105°C, the fans should be on high speed. If not, you have a fan problem - could be the fuse, relay, fan motors, sensor, etc. Not too hard to troubleshoot though.
Neither electric fans are on at 120º C, so I'll try to figure that out once I get the engine running smooth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Nailing would seem to indicate the injectors should be pop tested. Rough running does NOT automatically mean you need new injectors. I've mentioned before that the early 90's have issues with stretched timing chains... you need to check that first, before wasting time & money on red herrings. Besides, in the video you posted below, the engine doesn't sound bad, at least at idle.
The posted video doesn't showcase the roughness very well, in fact the video camera image stablize hides alot of the engine rattle. You can see it in the hoses vibrating, but you can't see the block rock as its idleing. The shuttering is also near non existent when the car is warm. Because I was testing the fan clutch, the video was shot after running up and down some hills when the temp gauge was reading near 120º C. When its cold the car rattles so violently, especially on the stumbling (partial miss, not a full miss) that sometimes I worry its going to rattle itself apart. The video is also when I'm running the set of "new" injectors from benzbin and I still get the nailing sound.

I'm a sucker for projects so I may consider making my own pop test rig. Did you make one, or did you send them out? I currently have the original injectors in (pretty sure original to the car) and there seems to be a lot more nailing. With the new set, I think only one injector is nailing.

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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Good move on the timing chain! Dealer wholesale - send me a PM or email for info.
PM on its way

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Well if you have the time & money, sure, it's a good idea. But otherwise, replace glow plugs in sets, when one fails. At least that's been my experience. If you know for certain the plugs are old or original, and will have the intake removed for other work, it would be a good idea to just go ahead and change them though.
Already have a set that I bought a few months ago. Somewhere on one of the forums, I read that if the idle was rough only when the car was cold, the Glowplugs could be suspect. I'll wait to install them until I have to pull the intake manifold for something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Actually, the fan clutch tools come in handy for many other things. You will want to pull that fan clutch out any time you work on the front of the engine - serpentine belt, alternator, vacuum pump, belt tensioner, etc. The tools are money well spent, and the same tools work on all OM60x diesels, as well as the M119/M120 gas engines. If you sell your MB and do not buy another, you can re-sell the tools and recoup much of your investment.
Besides the pully holder do I need anything else for the 602 engine to pull the front apart? Also my radiator doesn't have the reinforced necks, any reason I should replace the radiator just due to the lack of the neck reinforcement while I have it out?

I also had a cool dream to take a 124 300CE and swap a 603 diesel into it and make a "rare" convertible diesel... got to get this all sorted out before I go that far.


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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
It wasn't that way when I bought it, but now I've fixed everything!
I really apprciate you holding my hand through all this, your advice has been GREAT! I'll let you know how the next few days go, and thanks for the encouragement, I think this car could be a low maintence sweety if I can get her all sorted out.

How does the 87 124 6 cylinder compare in driving and performance to the 2.5? Is it a big difference in performance and acceloration? Which one do you like more, 3L, or 2.5?
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  #54  
Old 06-16-2009, 05:31 PM
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Where do I buy a EPC and how much does it cost?
Free online, or fairly cheap to buy a bootleg off-line version if desired:
http://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/




Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
606 clutch Mod upgrade is on the squawk list, I hope to do the radiator flush, citris descale, new waterpump install and new fan, and new fan belt when I get the pully holding tool. Is there anything else I should check while I have the front of the engine opened all up? Also the engine side fan shroud is missing its lower half, is it important to replace this to get proper air flow through the radiator? I'm guessing it would help.
If the fan shroud is damaged or missing (it's a 1-piece shroud on my car), it should be replaced. It does help with proper airflow. Check the serpentine belt tensioner lever arm (it should be parallel to the belt), and if the shock eyelet bushing is noisy (rattles), the shock gets replaced (OE only, not OEM).




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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Neither electric fans are on at 120º C, so I'll try to figure that out once I get the engine running smooth.
I'd do that sooner rather than later (ditton on the fan clutch). Frequent trips to 110°C or higher is not good.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
The posted video doesn't showcase the roughness very well, in fact the video camera image stablize hides alot of the engine rattle. You can see it in the hoses vibrating, but you can't see the block rock as its idleing. The shuttering is also near non existent when the car is warm. Because I was testing the fan clutch, the video was shot after running up and down some hills when the temp gauge was reading near 120º C. When its cold the car rattles so violently, especially on the stumbling (partial miss, not a full miss) that sometimes I worry its going to rattle itself apart. The video is also when I'm running the set of "new" injectors from benzbin and I still get the nailing sound.
I'm still highly suspicious of the timing chain and pump timing!




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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I'm a sucker for projects so I may consider making my own pop test rig. Did you make one, or did you send them out? I currently have the original injectors in (pretty sure original to the car) and there seems to be a lot more nailing. With the new set, I think only one injector is nailing.
I bought an older Bosch pop tester, which leaks internally, but works. But usually you can find a local shop that will test them for you for like $20 or so... takes 15 minutes or less for an experienced tech. For a one-time shot, I'd consider that route. If you intend to do more DIY diesel work, look into buying a pop tester (usually $200-$400 new, depending on the brand, not much cheaper used).




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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Already have a set that I bought a few months ago. Somewhere on one of the forums, I read that if the idle was rough only when the car was cold, the Glowplugs could be suspect. I'll wait to install them until I have to pull the intake manifold for something else.
Glow plugs would be the culprit if the roughness is just during the first 30-60 seconds after a cold start, particularly on really cold mornings. If one or more plugs is bad, the glow light on the dash either won't illuminate, or will turn on when the engine is running. You can test the plugs with a meter to see if they are ok. Pull the connector at the glow relay, measure each of the 5 pins to ground... should be very low ohms, say 3 ohms or less each. (Measuring at the plug itself, with connector removed, is normally 0.6 for a new plug).



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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Besides the pully holder do I need anything else for the 602 engine to pull the front apart? Also my radiator doesn't have the reinforced necks, any reason I should replace the radiator just due to the lack of the neck reinforcement while I have it out?
Just an 8mm hex socket drive. If the radiator is original Behr, without the reinforced neck, and you're already changing the water pump, clutch, etc... I'd be sorely tempted to do the radiator as well (Behr only, not Nissens) if you can get one at a tolerable price. Assuming you're not made of money, replace the clutch first, and if your temps don't stay below 100°C afterwards, then shell out for the new radiator (and plastic expansion tank).



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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
How does the 87 124 6 cylinder compare in driving and performance to the 2.5? Is it a big difference in performance and acceloration? Which one do you like more, 3L, or 2.5?
Night and day. The 3.0 engine has a ton more power off idle... step on the throttle and it goes, like a gas car. Traction was a frequent problem until I installed a limited-slip diff. The 2.5 just can't cough up enough power until boost builds, step on the pedal & wait, then it's ok. There is about a 10% difference in fuel economy between the two.

Which do I prefer? Well, the 90-up models have a lot more goodies and upgrades... wood on the doors & dash, optional ASD, updated exteriors, one-touch-down windows, etc. I like all that, but I don't like the reduced power. The 1987 is more spartan, but it's got the power (grunt, grunt!). So, I ended up converting my '87 pretty much into a 1990-93 spec (wood, leather, etc) and plan to do the full exterior facelift when it gets painted eventually (it will look like a 1995 model when I'm done). The 1995 E300 would save all that hassle, but since it's a non-turbo, you can't increase the power output without an engine swap. That's the one nice thing about the turbo engines... you can increase the power relatively easily. The E300 has more power than the 2.5T, but less than the 1987. Kinda depend what you're looking for, I guess. At high elevations, the non-turbo will lose power, while the turbo does not... something else to consider, depending on where you live, or where you travel.

The ultimate would be to get a 1994-95 version of the 3.0 turbo (124.133 chassis) which was only sold in Europe, not in North America. It would save all the effort of upgrading a 1987, but likely would cost as much or more, if you could even import one at all. I'll take one in Almandine Red with dual-zone climate control, thank you. If you want power, just get a nice E420, lol... the MPG ain't nearly as bad as you think on those! I've been pleasantly surprised with mine, but the cost & complexity of maintenance is significantly higher on the M119 compared to the OM60x diesel.


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  #55  
Old 06-16-2009, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Thanks Dana,
I'm not ready to call it quits yet, but I'm happy to know that there is place nearby that if I get totally frustrated I can go to your recommended shop. How does one verify that the injection pump is good? I'm going to check the timing over the next day or two, and then revist the rough idle after that.
Dunno. I got the IP with a second engine I used for a rebuild (looong story, and $$). If you want it, take it and if it works, we'll work something out. Otherwise, UPS it back. PM me if you wish.
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  #56  
Old 06-17-2009, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post

This engine is also known for defective timing chains installed from the factory. You must check the chain stretch, and if it's past the 4° limit, I'd highly recommend chain replacement. Click here to read the factory TSB, which shows how to check chain stretch. A worn chain will also retard pump timing, so check that too, but if you're gonna replace the chain... that will advance pump timing. So you need to check pump timing before & after, and make sure it's in spec.

Best regards,
  1. So, I pulled the the valve cover, and dropped a socket while removing the intake cross over pipe down the turbo side of the engine, didn't come out on the bottom have no Idea where it got caught! Tried shaking the car, nothing came out, wasted an hour fishing with a magnet, still can't find that Freaking Sucker! GRRRR
  2. Read the TSB, and this thread
  3. At the bottom of the TSB it mentions document 02-0530. I try to find this on the 124 manual site, but can't for some reason. I must be a dolt... after screwing up the R&R on the Delivery valves, I'm gun shy about just "winging it", and want to read the manual before I do anything, but once again, I spend an hour trying to navigate the manual and can't find the right group of insturctions. The obline version is actually missing all of group 02? Is that right or is it a subgroup somewhere?
  4. I scrap trying to find the instructions and pull the valve cover, and then try to get a socket on the cranknut per TSB, but can' fit a socket or wrench due to the fan shroud being in the way.
  5. I then search for another 30 minutes and find this document detailing timing chain removal. It says I need to remove the fan clutch. I can't get to the fan clutch because the fan shroud, and I also can't see the crankshaft index pointer because the belt tensioner is in the way. So to give the manual another try, I read and the timing chain removal job document and it points to document 20-312. I look through the online manual again, and yet again, can't find this job number? Am I a total retard? Am I missing something? It seems like I have the hardest time just trying to connect the dots through the manual. Is it worth the $50 to buy the FSM hard copy, or is it the same stuff that is online?
I'm guessing that to spin the bolt on the crankshaft to rotate the engine, It looks like I'm going to have to pull the radiator, so I can pull the fan shroud, so I can pull the fan, so I can pull the belt, so I can read the crank marker and spin the crankshaft nut. Is this right?

I also broke the plastic plug in the top of the valve cover trying to pry it out, so now I need to go figure out how to identify that part too.

Also, should I replace the valve cover gasket? It looks like a nice all rubber one, and since I can't find the job I'm guessing at what to torque it to.
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  #57  
Old 06-17-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
So, I pulled the the valve cover, and dropped a socket while removing the intake cross over pipe down the turbo side of the engine, didn't come out on the bottom have no Idea where it got caught! Tried shaking the car, nothing came out, wasted an hour fishing with a magnet, still can't find that Freaking Sucker! GRRRR
If it makes you feel any better, the Passat likely would have done the same thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Read the TSB, and this thread. At the bottom of the TSB it mentions document 02-0530. I try to find this on the 124 manual site, but can't for some reason. I must be a dolt... after screwing up the R&R on the Delivery valves, I'm gun shy about just "winging it", and want to read the manual before I do anything, but once again, I spend an hour trying to navigate the manual and can't find the right group of insturctions. The obline version is actually missing all of group 02? Is that right or is it a subgroup somewhere?
The TSB is mentioning a warranty operation number. It is irrelevant to what you are trying to do. The TSB itself is the procedure! There is no service manual Group 02.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
scrap trying to find the instructions and pull the valve cover, and then try to get a socket on the cranknut per TSB, but can' fit a socket or wrench due to the fan shroud being in the way.
Yep - need to pull the fan out of there to make your life easier. The TSB was written for dealer techs, and assumes they know to start by pulling the fan.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I then search for another 30 minutes and find this document detailing timing chain removal. It says I need to remove the fan clutch. I can't get to the fan clutch because the fan shroud, and I also can't see the crankshaft index pointer because the belt tensioner is in the way.
The crank pointer is not easy to see, but there is nothing in the way. You will need a light of some sort to make the markings visible though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
So to give the manual another try, I read and the timing chain removal job document and it points to document 20-312. I look through the online manual again, and yet again, can't find this job number? Am I a total retard? Am I missing something?
LOL, no, and yes. Job 20-312 is in the original printed manual, and also in the W126 service CD (which has the original print manual in PDF form). The 124 service CD manual has some jobs the same as the print manual, and others which are based on the WIS. This happens to be one of them. The WIS uses a different job numbering format, XX-YYYYzz, instead of the usual XX-YYY. On the 124 CD, it's job number 20-5660hw - Removing and installing viscous fan clutch (click here).



Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
It seems like I have the hardest time just trying to connect the dots through the manual. Is it worth the $50 to buy the FSM hard copy, or is it the same stuff that is online?
That $50 will get you a bootleg copy of the factory serivice CD manuals, not a printed factory manual. If you want the factory printed manuals, you need to start a treasure hunt on the internet and eBay, and expect to pay $200-$400 for a full set of 5 printed manuals (engine, chassis 1+2, ETM, and ACC). Click here to see an auction for the engine manual on eBay. The last two (items 140324499412 and 290320107225) went for $41 and $86 including S&H... someone got a great deal on that first one.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I'm guessing that to spin the bolt on the crankshaft to rotate the engine, It looks like I'm going to have to pull the radiator, so I can pull the fan shroud, so I can pull the fan, so I can pull the belt, so I can read the crank marker and spin the crankshaft nut. Is this right?
Yes - or, get the fan clutch tools so the radiator can stay in place.



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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I also broke the plastic plug in the top of the valve cover trying to pry it out, so now I need to go figure out how to identify that part too.
The PCV breather pipe? Yeah, that often breaks, it gets brittle after enough years of being fried by engine heat. It's only sold as an assembly, p/n 602-010-06-70. You'll also want the rubber grommet at the valve cover, which is typically fossilized after 5+ years, p/n 601-016-01-63. About $25 wholesale for both.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Also, should I replace the valve cover gasket? It looks like a nice all rubber one, and since I can't find the job I'm guessing at what to torque it to.
If it is old and no longer soft & compliant, yes, replace it. If it's recent and/or soft, it can be re-used multiple times. Torque spec is listed in other jobs which specify cover removal, 10Nm... Mercedes designed the cover so that you cannot crush the gasket, if you over-tighten the bolts you'll simply strip the threads in the cylinder head. Just clean all the sealing surfaces, then tighten the bolts to "snug" and they'll be fine. The gasket is 602-016-02-21, about $20 wholesale, but it will last a long time.


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  #58  
Old 06-17-2009, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Yes - or, get the fan clutch tools so the radiator can stay in place.
Ordered the socket and pully holder last night. I opted to save the $80 and build my own nut spinner tool. Lools like a 8mm allen, with an offset bolt pivot something like 6" away from centerline to centerline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
The PCV breather pipe? Yeah, that often breaks, it gets brittle after enough years of being fried by engine heat. It's only sold as an assembly, p/n 602-010-06-70. You'll also want the rubber grommet at the valve cover, which is typically fossilized after 5+ years, p/n 601-016-01-63. About $25 wholesale for both.
Thanks for helping with the part number! The typical easy one to find on fast lane is NOT the right part to replace that crankvent line. Having the part numbers in a spread sheet like you suggested is KEY to makeing the ordering process easy. I ordered ~$500 of parts last night, so hopefully I'll be able to resolve the short term issues with out spending any more $$ this month


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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
If it is old and no longer soft & compliant, yes, replace it.
Felt nice and soft, so I don't think I'll worry about it at this time.
I also looked closer at the fan shroud, and it isn't that busted up, but it does have a split in it. I also ordered injector hardlines and mounting plastic last night, along with 606 clutch, fan, temp switch.

Are you sure you can see the crank index needle with the belt and fan in the way? I looked all over with shop light and flash light and it looks like from the service doc that the index needle is in the 12 Oclock position when looking at the crank balancer when looking front to back??

Plan is to get chain stretch checked, check IP timing, and then focus on cooling system all squared away, after that injector nailing.

Which way do you prefer to do IP timing? It looks like there is a instrument intesive method (electric) or the drip method. Any good threads, how tos, special tools or comments on being prepared to do after I verify timing chain?

Then I'll work on injectors and nailing, and I think I'll bite the bullet and build myself a pop tester.

I also tried to setup the EPC last night and got too tired after the Java installation. I'll try to play with it some more tonight. As always, you rock and thanks for the help! Was up to 2:30 am again reading after getting the car back together so I could drive to work today!!
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  #59  
Old 06-17-2009, 03:03 PM
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Are you sure you can see the crank index needle with the belt and fan in the way? I looked all over with shop light and flash light and it looks like from the service doc that the index needle is in the 12 Oclock position when looking at the crank balancer when looking front to back??
The little diagram shown in the TSB is misleading... it's not a needle-shaped pointer at 12 o'clock. It's a wedge-shaped pointer at more like 10 or 11 o'clock. You have to look straight down behind the water pump pulley. Unfortunately I don't have a good photo showing the indicator. The flat side of the wedge will line up with the markings on the balancer, with a new chain it would indicate TDC when the cam marks are lined up. The indicator is adjustable over a 3 degree range, though, and sometimes it can be loosened by accident during a pump replacement, so it's no longer accurate. If this has happened, just set it in the middle of the adjustment range, that will get you with 1 degree, which is close enough. (The only way to properly set it involves a dial gauge on top of the piston.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
Which way do you prefer to do IP timing? It looks like there is a instrument intesive method (electric) or the drip method. Any good threads, how tos, special tools or comments on being prepared to do after I verify timing chain?
Forget the drip method! Ugh, what a nightmarish way to set timing. The RIV method (via tools) is the way to go. The proper tool (A-B light box) is quite expensive, but works wonderfully. On the tool rental thread, two people offer the tool for rent (see #22 and #23). Although the lock tool is not designed for setting IP timing, it works fine, IF you exercise extreme caution to not rotate the engine or the IP with the lock tool engaged (this can damage the IP). Click here to see how it works. Yet another option is to use a flashlight & mirror to simply look down the bore, and eyeball the position of the tang... see photo below. The tools simply let you know when that tang is centered in the hole.

Remember that if your chain is stretched by X degrees, the IP timing will be retarded by X/2 degrees. For example if the chain is off 6 degrees (6° ATDC instead of zero/TDC), the IP will be off by 3 degrees (17° ATDC instead of 14° ATDC). If this is the case, when you roll in a new chain, it will automatically advance the IP timing. Keep that in mind before making any adjustments...




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  #60  
Old 06-17-2009, 06:58 PM
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I agree, GSXR is the shiznit.

I had a very, very hard shifting transmission until I isolated a pretty serious vac leak in the rat's nest near the air filter box.

It wasn't until I...

1) plugged off the supply line from the vac pump to that mess
2) did the pressure wastegate mod
3) moved the modulator key on on the side of the tranny four positions clockwise(because it had too much vacuum after isolating the leak and plugging the line leading to it causing it to shift way too softly-adjusting this key clockwise firms up shifts)
4) adjusted the vacuum doohickey on the IP by loosening both bolts, pulling the throttle wide open and rotating clockwise until I felt resistance and retightening the bolts

...that I got silky, buttery smooth and positive shifts from this Teutonic work of art.

When I started this project, it would shift so hard that I thought the rear end would fall out of the car and I drove it like this for about 10K miles.

I continue to be impressed with the adjustability and solidity of the design of this vehicle.

Even when all seems lost, I haven't actually had a truly serious problem with the car.(knocks on wood)

It's a matter of $olving the riddle one piece at a time.

It's the beauty and the challenge.

Good luck convincing your wife that's the case....

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Last edited by i-osprey; 06-17-2009 at 07:13 PM.
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