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  #61  
Old 06-17-2009, 07:43 PM
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I always wondered what was in there, I'll have to look at the MW pump and see if I can some up with something special. 15* is stock for 60x?

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  #62  
Old 06-17-2009, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
I always wondered what was in there, I'll have to look at the MW pump and see if I can some up with something special. 15* is stock for 60x?
Depends on the year. Pre-1990 (approx) the spec was 15°, ±1°. From about 1990-up, it changed to 14.0°, ±0.5°. Details are in this PDF file. I set mine around 13.5-14.0. There appears to be a slight improvement in fuel economy with the timing on the advanced side.

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  #63  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Depends on the year. Pre-1990 (approx) the spec was 15°, ±1°. From about 1990-up, it changed to 14.0°, ±0.5°. Details are in this PDF file. I set mine around 13.5-14.0. There appears to be a slight improvement in fuel economy with the timing on the advanced side.

I read the spec you attached above, does this mean I also need a pulse counter besides the position a-b light? It looks like I also need part (021) pulse generator too to verify all these settings, is that something seperate, or does that come with the A-B light?

I have a late model AutoXray 6000 OBDII scanner that has says the software will work with 1990 MB onboard boxes, but I think I would have to make my own interface plug to be able to hook up to the car side plug. Any idea if there is a commerical pig tail I can buy off the self?
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  #64  
Old 06-18-2009, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I read the spec you attached above, does this mean I also need a pulse counter besides the position a-b light? It looks like I also need part (021) pulse generator too to verify all these settings, is that something seperate, or does that come with the A-B light?
Nope. The pulse counter is only needed if you want to view injection timing with the engine running, i.e. to view the advance curve relative to engine RPM. You set the basic IP static timing with the engine off with the A-B light, or lock tool, or mirror+hole method.





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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
I have a late model AutoXray 6000 OBDII scanner that has says the software will work with 1990 MB onboard boxes, but I think I would have to make my own interface plug to be able to hook up to the car side plug. Any idea if there is a commerical pig tail I can buy off the self?
I'd be shocked if that would work. All W124 models are OBD-1. No OBD-II scanners will talk to them. Your 124.128 only has analog blink codes (click here for a list). Once you convert the wastegate to a pressure type, the onboard codes are useless anyway. You can pull analog codes from SRS and ACC, but those aren't related to the powertrain. There are digital codes on W124 V8 models (400E/500E) but that's a different discussion... and there is still no adapter that will let an OBD-II scanner talk to the OBD-1 modules. You need a scanner designed for that purpose (Star SDS, Snap-On, Trisco, etc).



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  #65  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:07 PM
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I'm trying to understand how you would use the IP lock tool mentioned above to check the timing? I'm assuming the lock tool prevents the IP from moving when it removed, wouldn't that prevent the pump from moving while you are spinning the engine to get it to rotated to the right spot?

So does the lock only fit when the tang is in the dead middle of its port, so you rotate the engine, then rotate a degree see it it fits, and go back an forth until you can insert the tool?

the first guy to respond on the AB light rental said he hasn't got his tool back yet. Waiting to hear back from the second guy.
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  #66  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post

I'd be shocked if that would work. All W124 models are OBD-1. No OBD-II scanners will talk to them. Your 124.128 only has analog blink codes (click here for a list). Once you convert the wastegate to a pressure type, the onboard codes are useless anyway. You can pull analog codes from SRS and ACC, but those aren't related to the powertrain. There are digital codes on W124 V8 models (400E/500E) but that's a different discussion... and there is still no adapter that will let an OBD-II scanner talk to the OBD-1 modules. You need a scanner designed for that purpose (Star SDS, Snap-On, Trisco, etc).

The autoXray6000 also reads OBD1 codes and some other older Pre-OBD stuff for Ford, GM, and Chrysler, but I only have OBD1 plugs for the detriot three.
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  #67  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:30 PM
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I'm trying to understand how you would use the IP lock tool mentioned above to check the timing? I'm assuming the lock tool prevents the IP from moving when it removed, wouldn't that prevent the pump from moving while you are spinning the engine to get it to rotated to the right spot?

So does the lock only fit when the tang is in the dead middle of its port, so you rotate the engine, then rotate a degree see it it fits, and go back an forth until you can insert the tool?
You get the crank indicator in the ballpark (about 13°) then veerrrrrrrry (!) slowly turn the engine, about a half-degree at a time, until the lock tool engages (you can feel it - turn the shaft gently). Then read the number on the crank (probably 16-18°). That's the current setting.

Now remove the lock, rotate engine twice (720°) back to 14.0°, leave the crank alone, and adjust the pump until the lock tool engages with the pump at 14.0°. Tighten the pump down, REMOVE the lock, now turn the crank twice again and verify that it's still at the same 14.0° (±0.5°).

It's a slower procedure using the lock, and if you forget to remove it before either turning the engine or adjusting the IP via the turnbuckle, you can damage things. The A-B tool is faster and eliminates any risk. It's the 10x cost differential that steers folks to use the lock tool. Then again, the mirror method is free, and probably accurate within 1 degree (maybe less).

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  #68  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:36 PM
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It's a slower procedure using the lock, and if you forget to remove it before either turning the engine or adjusting the IP via the turnbuckle, you can damage things. The A-B tool is faster and eliminates any risk. It's the 10x cost differential that steers folks to use the lock tool. Then again, the mirror method is free, and probably accurate within 1 degree (maybe less).

So if I can measure the tang to be "dead middle" of its forward and aft translation then I don't need the timing light... I think I'll buy the lock, but I also have a couple of machining dail indicators and feeler dials that I can set up on a mag base post and measure the IP timing tang go back and forth until I get a value for its "mid-stroke" and then check this against the timing marks right?
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  #69  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:40 PM
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The autoXray6000 also reads OBD1 codes and some other older Pre-OBD stuff for Ford, GM, and Chrysler, but I only have OBD1 plugs for the detriot three.
I'm not sure it would be worth obtaining the adapter, it could cost as much (or more) than just getting a hand-held LED blink reader from eBay (or, building one yourself from $10 in Radio Shack parts). Here's a few - they all work the same, cheaper is better, IMO:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_rdc=1&item=330337852954

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_rdc=1&item=320382621522

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_rdc=1&item=170343234147


If any of them include "code lists", toss them in the trash.

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  #70  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:45 PM
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Also since I'm waiting on parts and tools to finish the timing measurement attempt, I worked on trying to trouble shoot the cooling issue some last night.

To keep the engine idle issue/fix and cooling issue/fix seperate so that other folks can later easily find solutions to thier cooling problems, I'll try to keep the two problems in their respective threads (have you ever tried to search these forums? Good titles and staying on topic would help a TON!!)
Here is my 1990 W124 300D 2.5 Turbo Cooling Issue thread.
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  #71  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
I'm not sure it would be worth obtaining the adapter, it could cost as much (or more) than just getting a hand-held LED blink reader from eBay (or, building one yourself from $10 in Radio Shack parts). Here's a few - they all work the same, cheaper is better, IMO:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_rdc=1&item=330337852954

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_rdc=1&item=320382621522

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_rdc=1&item=170343234147


If any of them include "code lists", toss them in the trash
Sweet, I think I'll make one ), I'm going to search for a thread on this as I'm guessing there are probably a couple of good ones out there.
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  #72  
Old 06-18-2009, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketboy52 View Post
(have you ever tried to search these forums? Good titles and staying on topic would help a TON!!)
FYI in case you didn't know, you can use Google if you put site:peachparts.com after your search terms. You'll get results from here only and can use Google's more complex queries.
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  #73  
Old 06-18-2009, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DSlater View Post
FYI in case you didn't know, you can use Google if you put site:peachparts.com after your search terms. You'll get results from here only and can use Google's more complex queries.
OOooo KOOOOWEL! I did not know that, I'll definately have to try that out. I always feel bad when guys like GSXR are having to constantly repeat themeselves to every wet behind the ear greenie (like myself) that comes along.
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  #74  
Old 06-18-2009, 02:35 PM
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So if I can measure the tang to be "dead middle" of its forward and aft translation then I don't need the timing light... I think I'll buy the lock, but I also have a couple of machining dail indicators and feeler dials that I can set up on a mag base post and measure the IP timing tang go back and forth until I get a value for its "mid-stroke" and then check this against the timing marks right?
I don't think a dial indicator will be useful for this. You need to center the tang in the hole, and the tang stands much higher than the surrounding metal. If your dial indicator was sensing the surrounding metal the tang would get caught on the side of the indicator plunger. You'd also need a way to center the indicator plunger in the hole, which means making a bushing of some sort. If you make a bushing, then you might as well just look through the hole in the bushing to see the tang... it'll be more accurate than eyeballing it in the larger hole. Eyeballing it in the large hole is really pretty easy with a mirror, and I think will be accurate enough.

I made a crude lock tool when I removed my IP. I took a brass hose barb fitting and cut it down (cut off the threaded part). I used a hacksaw blade to cut a slot in one end. The other end was a nice fit in the ID of the inspection port plug. I got the tang centered, put in my hose barb with the slot engaging the tang, and screwed the port plug in gently to hold it all together. Worked like a charm, but I did it because I was pressed for time. If you have time to buy/rent/borrow the right tool that is undoubtedly the way to go.
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  #75  
Old 06-24-2009, 01:57 AM
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Worked on the car quite a bit over the last few days. I'm wating for a new crank breather hose to replace the brittle one. I upgraded the fan clutch and fan to the 606 version and also replaced the fan belt and water pump. Pics and details of that effort are in my :
1990 300D 2.5 Turbo overheating thread

A side benefit once I removed the the water pump pulley seeing the timing was WAY easy. Problem was I have an oil leak in the area and a lot of crud was built up in the area.


Is this a common leak point? Should I worry about this? I'm thinking this leak is a slow weeper either on the oil pan gasket, or the front crank seal. How hard of a job is it to replace the oil pan gasket with the motor in the car on a 602? Is it even possible? The leak is slow enough that it doesn't even puddle or drip on the drive way, but this one section of the block and alternator carrier is really gunked over. I almost wonder if the leak is where the dip tube goes into the block? This is the only place that the car currently leaks, until this:


Oil spitting due to the broken breather port


Timing was a snap with the fan, pulley and radiator out of the way

Now here is the good news, my Timing chain was DEAD on, so I can at least cross the timing chain stretch question off of the list. The bad news is after checking on the inejector timing, I don't know what to check next except to pop test injectors!?! Here are some pics:

Here are some pics of the cam timing mark lined up:

From the front


From the top

Here is the timing marker on the crankshaft pulley

From the front


From the side

So in the next day or two, the injector timing lock will show up and I'll try to evaluate the injector pump timing.

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