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  #1  
Old 06-17-2009, 01:57 AM
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Pressure valve seal

i had my injectors rebuilt and balanced with new tips and the car runs great but somtimes the idle is a little rough and the car is slightly shaky... and i get a lil bit of a maybe nailling sound, only at like idle tho when i give it gas all that stops... do u think my pressure valve seals could be going bad? 225k on the car/motor so i was thinking about replacing all of them if its not too much of a job... just for piece of mind and hopfully a better running more efficent motor,

does anyone know how replace these? i was reading and it doesnt sound hard but im a little confused on exactly where this seal is located and if the springs where each seal is could have an effect on the way it runs and if that can be replaced also..

thanks- Jason
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1985 mercedes benz 300D turbo diesel
1998 VW GTI VR6
1996 VW GTI 2.0
1999 saab 9-3 turbo
1987 300sdl (sold)
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2009, 02:40 AM
compress ignite's Avatar
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No o-rings on 617 series engine Delivery Valves

Call Phil @ fastlane in the A.M. ,BUT I believe you need copper washers.
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  #3  
Old 06-26-2009, 08:53 PM
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who is phil and what is fastlane?

is there seals that can be replaced on my pump? if there are i would like to replace them anyway due to the mileage on the motor and also because i want my car running as perfect as can be.
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1985 mercedes benz 300D turbo diesel
1998 VW GTI VR6
1996 VW GTI 2.0
1999 saab 9-3 turbo
1987 300sdl (sold)
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  #4  
Old 06-26-2009, 09:41 PM
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Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
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Go to the tab above that says "BUY PARTS". there you will find "Fast Lane" and "All Parts Express". the parts is what keeps this site up and running.

Phill is the guy you will talk to on the 800#. He can get you what you need, or knows where to find it.

I order parts early enough in the morning, and I have them usually the next day around 10am.

call Phill, or just order through the online catalog

Charlie
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Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

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Last edited by charmalu; 06-28-2009 at 12:28 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-26-2009, 10:28 PM
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Some Models of Fuel Injection Pumps have bot O-rings and Copper Crush Washers to seal the Pressure Valve/Delivery Valves. Some only have the Copper Crush Washers.

While they can be changed the Copper Crush Washers seldom cause a problem.

Some other things might also have an effect on your shake at idle.

Is your idle speed within spec (there should be a tag just like on Gas Cars that has the Idle Speed Listed on it)?
Have your Valves been adjusted lately?
Have you tried re-adjusting your Rack Damper Screw?
I had a small air leak due to hard Fuel Inlet Hoses that allowed air in when the Hoses got warm. Tightening the clamps did not help. I replaced the Hoses and a little bit more shake dissapeared.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
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  #6  
Old 06-26-2009, 10:44 PM
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At the site below is a parts breakdown of 2 types of fuel Injection Pumps
The one in the first diagram is the one thay you most likly have.
In the Upper left corner of the diagram you will see.
#29 The Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve Holder
#41 The Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve Spring
#50 The Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve itself (this is a 2 piece assembly the large cylinder of the valve body and in the center the valve itself, the part that contacts the spring)
#47 The Pressure Valve Seal (also called a Copper Crush Washer)
So in the case of the 1 diagram the Copper Crush Washer goes under the Pressure Valve and is no where near the spring.

Do not touch anything further down below #47 and do not loosen the 13mm nuts on each side of the Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve Holder

In the 2nd diagram is an M style Fuel Injection Pump this pump uses both the Copper Crush Washer and the O-ring seals.
The #44 Copper Crush washer in this case goes on top of the #50 Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve.
Here is the site with diagrams
http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=123132&M=617%2E912&GA=722%2E118405&GM=716%2E005++++++++++++++717%2E400&CT=M&cat=143&SID=07&SGR=045&SGN=01
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  #7  
Old 06-26-2009, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
Some Models of Fuel Injection Pumps have bot O-rings and Copper Crush Washers to seal the Pressure Valve/Delivery Valves. Some only have the Copper Crush Washers.

While they can be changed the Copper Crush Washers seldom cause a problem.

Some other things might also have an effect on your shake at idle.

Is your idle speed within spec (there should be a tag just like on Gas Cars that has the Idle Speed Listed on it)?
Have your Valves been adjusted lately?
Have you tried re-adjusting your Rack Damper Screw?
I had a small air leak due to hard Fuel Inlet Hoses that allowed air in when the Hoses got warm. Tightening the clamps did not help. I replaced the Hoses and a little bit more shake dissapeared.



I HAVE ADJUSTED MY VALVES PROPERLY ABOUT 1000 MILES AGO
MY IDLE WAS AT ABT 600 WHICH I LIKED AND DIDNT SHAKE BUT TENDED TO NAIL SOMTIMES, THEN IN THE RPM RANGE BETWEEN 600 AND 850 IT WOULD TEND TO SHAKE PRETTY ROUGH UNTIL I GET IT TO ABT 850 900 THEN ITS OK AND SOMTIMES I WILL GET A NAIL HERE AND THERE AND SOMTIMES IT WONT NAIL AT ALL. WHERE IS THE RACK DAMPER SCREW AND WHAT DOES IT DO?
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1985 mercedes benz 300D turbo diesel
1998 VW GTI VR6
1996 VW GTI 2.0
1999 saab 9-3 turbo
1987 300sdl (sold)
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  #8  
Old 06-26-2009, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
At the site below is a parts breakdown of 2 types of fuel Injection Pumps
The one in the first diagram is the one thay you most likly have.
In the Upper left corner of the diagram you will see.
#29 The Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve Holder
#41 The Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve Spring
#50 The Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve itself (this is a 2 piece assembly the large cylinder of the valve body and in the center the valve itself, the part that contacts the spring)
#47 The Pressure Valve Seal (also called a Copper Crush Washer)
So in the case of the 1 diagram the Copper Crush Washer goes under the Pressure Valve and is no where near the spring.

Do not touch anything further down below #47 and do not loosen the 13mm nuts on each side of the Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve Holder

In the 2nd diagram is an M style Fuel Injection Pump this pump uses both the Copper Crush Washer and the O-ring seals.
The #44 Copper Crush washer in this case goes on top of the #50 Pressure Valve/Delivery Valve.
Here is the site with diagrams
http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=123132&M=617%2E912&GA=722%2E118405&GM=716%2E005++++++++++++++717%2E400&CT=M&cat=143&SID=07&SGR=045&SGN=01

YA THE FIRST PUMP LOOKS LIKE MINE. SO U DONT THINK THOSE CRUSH WASHERS COULD BE BAD OR ANYTHING? IV HAD THE FUEL LINES OFF WHEN I CHANGED THE INJECTOR NOZZLES (THEY WERE BALANCED AND CLEANED AT A BOSCH SHOP) SO THATS IT REALLY, PURGED IT TWICE, THERE WASNT ANY BLACK FUEL COMING OUT WHEN I DID THE PURGE EITHER IT WAS CLEAN AS WHEN I PUT THE LUBRO MOLLY IN MY CONTRAPTION AND IT KEPT CIRCULATING AND I DID 2 CANS WORTH AND STILL DIDNT GET ANY CRAP TO COME OUT JUST LOOKED AS IT DID WHEN IT CAME OUTTA THE CAN AND I REVVED IT UP ALOT AND EVERYTHING SO I DUNNO MAYBE IT WAS JUST CLEAN BUT ID LIKE IT TO NOT NAIL AND SHAKE.
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1985 mercedes benz 300D turbo diesel
1998 VW GTI VR6
1996 VW GTI 2.0
1999 saab 9-3 turbo
1987 300sdl (sold)
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2009, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboSDL View Post
YA THE FIRST PUMP LOOKS LIKE MINE. SO U DONT THINK THOSE CRUSH WASHERS COULD BE BAD OR ANYTHING? IV HAD THE FUEL LINES OFF WHEN I CHANGED THE INJECTOR NOZZLES (THEY WERE BALANCED AND CLEANED AT A BOSCH SHOP) SO THATS IT REALLY, PURGED IT TWICE, THERE WASNT ANY BLACK FUEL COMING OUT WHEN I DID THE PURGE EITHER IT WAS CLEAN AS WHEN I PUT THE LUBRO MOLLY IN MY CONTRAPTION AND IT KEPT CIRCULATING AND I DID 2 CANS WORTH AND STILL DIDNT GET ANY CRAP TO COME OUT JUST LOOKED AS IT DID WHEN IT CAME OUTTA THE CAN AND I REVVED IT UP ALOT AND EVERYTHING SO I DUNNO MAYBE IT WAS JUST CLEAN BUT ID LIKE IT TO NOT NAIL AND SHAKE.
When I worked in a fuel injection shop maybe ounce or twice in a year I would get an IP where the Crush Washer was eroded away and had started to leak. However, it is vary rare.
If the above is the problem you will see it when you pull out the Crush Washer; as the Crush Washer would have an area eaten away.
If you want to change the Crush Washers it would not certainly not cost much to do it yourself. Will it cure your problem? I do not know.

I have not ever done a Purge so cannot comment on that.

I also wish some other Members that have had Nailing problems would speak up!
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Last edited by Diesel911; 06-27-2009 at 01:31 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-28-2009, 11:18 AM
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YA IT WOULD BE NICE TO HEAR FROM FELLOW NAILERS!!!!!!

ANYWAY... CAN I GO TO MERCEDES AND GET THESE CRUSH WASHERS? HOW MUCH DO THEY TYPICALLY COST? AND IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU THINK I MAY BE ABLE TO DO TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE?
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1998 VW GTI VR6
1996 VW GTI 2.0
1999 saab 9-3 turbo
1987 300sdl (sold)
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  #11  
Old 06-28-2009, 11:28 AM
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The other members keep saying Fastlane at the parts tab at the top of the page has them if you are willing for them to be mailed to you.
I have never bought any. When I did my Drip Timing I was supposed to change the Crush Washer but never got around to ordering any. So, I took a chance and reused the old one (I did not move it I just left it in place, this could be why I got away with it). So far no problems.
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