(Urgent!) Am I out of options? W126 Ignition tumbler - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tbomachines · #1 06-29-2009, 10:01 PM

I was taking out my ignition tumbler to replace with a "universal" type so I could have two separate keys, one to get in and one to start. Anyway I was taking out the old tumbler following the "easy-five-minute" procedure and something went wrong. I stuck my paper clip into the little hole at the top of the tumbler and began to unscrew the black plastic surrounding piece with a pair of needlenose pliers. I got it about 1/2 inch out and it stopped. I realized the key was then in the off position (must have hit it while unscrewing) and so I took the key out. I put the key back into the tumbler to see if I could turn it and get the paperclip into detent again, but it was jammed. It is now jammed in the "off" position with it halfway out. I can't turn the black ring, as it is caught on something inside (presumably the detent). I can't turn the key to get to the detent, so now what???

Do I have to drill the thing out? The steering wheel wasn't locked, but in my musclin' I ended up locking it by accident. The damn thing is half-in the garage and I can't keep it open all night. Also, the "surface" of the tumbler, like what is beng held in by the black ring, is flopping around in it freely...something tells me that isn't right. All I wanted to do was a 5 minute job tonight

tbomachines · #2 06-29-2009, 10:46 PM

Desperate here....I searched and read every thread I could find, none addressed my issue specifically, only "stuck" keys without being half-removed. Please, any help much appreciated. Can I just drill it out and hope the spring from the detent releases/

TMAllison · #3 06-29-2009, 11:39 PM

Can't help with the key issue...perhaps you can jack the diff with a floor jack and push it in the garage so you can close the door though....

funola · #4 06-30-2009, 12:07 AM

Maybe your 300 SD is different. My 300D and 240D both have a black metal ring that unscrews. I can't picture how you are using needle nose pliers on the round smooth ring. Use you fingers! Try a stronger poker like the dull end of a small drill bit instead of a paper clip to push in the pawl and see if you can get the ring off.

compress ignite · #5 06-30-2009, 12:19 AM

Get the sucker secured in the garage.

rcounts · #6 06-30-2009, 12:35 AM

It sounds like the "ring" or "collar" or whatever you want to call it may be screwed out far enough that the "head" of the key is hitting it and that's keepin the key from going all the way in. If that is correct then the only solution that comes to mind is if you have a spare key, or better yet, if you can go get a cheap brass one made at Home Creepo or Slowes and cut the "sides" off the head so that it will fit down inside the collar far enough to allow you to turn it...

tbomachines · #7 06-30-2009, 08:17 AM

Thank you for the responses! For the night I gave up, put the car in neutral and backed it out of the garage...while maneuvering the rest of the cars in the driveway around it. No biggie there, made them all fit like tetris.

Quote:

My 300D and 240D both have a black metal ring that unscrews. I can't picture how you are using needle nose pliers on the round smooth ring.

I was unscrewing the black ring when this occurred. I believe that the paperclip I was using slipped out of the pawl without me noticing, then when I was unscrewing the metal ring (or is it plastic coated? don't know) it caught again on it and now won't move. The key is jammed in the OFF position so I can't get to the pawl again. I was using pliers because I got big fat clumsy fingers! After this frustration, the thing is starting to get chewed up though.

Quote:

It sounds like the "ring" or "collar" or whatever you want to call it may be screwed out far enough that the "head" of the key is hitting it and that's keepin the key from going all the way in.

Its not quite that far out--I can get the key all the way in, I just can't turn it.

I'm thinking that perhaps the tumbler broke as I was taking it out in a bad stroke of luck.

I had to borrow my father's car to get to work today, hopefully I can get this fixed soon. Has anyone simply drilled and gutted the tumbler? Would it be easier than taking off the steering wheel, dropping the column, etc? Would it even work? The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion its my only hope at this point

funola · #8 06-30-2009, 10:01 AM

Have you tried turning the ring counterclockwise a little to un-jam the pawl? You have to line up the holes so the pin can be pushed in to retract the pawl, that means you have to be able to turn the key to get the tumbler in the correct position to get the pin inserted. Don't force anything, it can only get worse if you do. The ring has very fine threads and should unscrew easily by pressing on it with 2 fingers and turning it, no pliers necessary. Where in CT are you? It could also be that your tumbler wafers are jammed and the key is not working. Spray some WD40 in it and see if that helps to unjam it. You can wash out the tumbler later with dish detergent and water and I'd bet you can resurrect it. Leave it dry! No lube, no graphite, no nothing should go in the tumbler!

tbomachines · #9 06-30-2009, 11:22 AM

I've tried working with the black ring and it is stuck. When I move it (or try at least), the whole lock moves with it, which leads me to suspect that the pawl has latched into it again somehow. The weird thing is that it isn't in the normal position on the tumbler for the pawl to lock. The ring is close to 180* away from normal, yet it still caught. I do not see any possible reason that the lock will not turn now with the key unless I had a very coincidental stroke of bad luck and had a perfectly good tumbler break at the worst time. I'll try lubricating the tumbler as a last ditch effort to free up the internals...I'm not looking to reuse it at this point.

btw I am in Rocky Hill.

funola · #10 06-30-2009, 11:33 AM

Do you want help? Maybe I'll get lucky.

Send me a pm if you do. I'd want the tumbler and one key if I get it out.

rcounts · #11 06-30-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

I've tried working with the black ring and it is stuck. When I move it (or try at least), the whole lock moves with it, which leads me to suspect that the pawl has latched into it again somehow. The weird thing is that it isn't in the normal position on the tumbler for the pawl to lock. The ring is close to 180* away from normal, yet it still caught. I do not see any possible reason that the lock will not turn now with the key unless I had a very coincidental stroke of bad luck and had a perfectly good tumbler break at the worst time. I'll try lubricating the tumbler as a last ditch effort to free up the internals...I'm not looking to reuse it at this point.

btw I am in Rocky Hill.

I'll bet you a dollar the key isn't going all the way into the tumbler. As that trim ring/collar screws off it extracts the tumbler with it. As long as the key isn't in the OFF position it is locked in the tumbler. When you accidentally turned it to the off position the key was no longer locked in the tumbler and it dropped back down into the column lock assembly.

Once the collar is screwed out just enough to start to lift the tumbler out of the column assembly, if the tumbler is rotated to the OFF position and drops back down in there there's no way to get the key to insert all the way into the tumbler. It only has to be a tiny fraction of an inch from being all the way in to not work. I experienced the EXACT same thing when I was changing mine. Fortunately I had it completely out and in my hands when it happened so I was able to turn the whole assembly upside down and shake the tumbler part way out of the column assembly and get the key to bottom out in the tumbler to where it would turn.

Here's something cheap to try. Have an inexpensive brass key made, then cut the head down to the same width as the "blade" of the key - narrow enough to fit through the opening in the collar. I'll betcha' a dollar that once the head isn't keeping it from bottoming out in the tumbler and you get it inserted all the way it unlocks. If I'm wrong you've only wasted an hour (getting the key made and modifying it) and 2 bucks to have the key made. If I'm right, you've saved yourself a WHOLE lot of time and hassle.

tbomachines · #12 06-30-2009, 06:19 PM

Funola that would give you my only key, I'll pass though thannks for the offer!

rcounts, that is a very good point, I will see what I can do about getting a key made. The "double security" key poses problems as not every shop can copy them with their equipment...I'll call around. I'm pretty sure the key is all the way in, butt no way to completely know and its worth a shot before I take the dremel to it. Thanks guys!

funola · #13 06-30-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Funola that would give you my only key, I'll pass though thannks for the offer!

Any luck?
I'd still like the tumbler w/o key if you have no use for it so I can figure out how it comes apart.

tbomachines · #14 06-30-2009, 08:54 PM

We'll see what kind of condition it is in after I finish with it, I'm leaning towards drilling it out. I didn't get a chance to work on it much today due to late work schedule and immediate raging thunderstorm.