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  #16  
Old 07-25-2009, 10:00 PM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
Registered Biodiesel User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,389
Finished!

The rebuilt Bosch starter arrived yesterday, I installed it today. No problems other than slight modifications to allow the car's factory wiring to coexist with the slightly different configuration of the rebuilt starter. Took 4 hours including a lunch break and wiring modifications.

That it was a starter problem was confirmed Friday when my wife couldn't get the car to start in the heat after sitting for awhile after driving around town running errands. Per my mechanic's advice, she poured cold water on the starter and it worked.

Watch the following 15 second video and see if you agree there is something wrong with the solenoid on the old starter -- I don't think the pinion is supposed to flop in and out like that, certainly the new one doesn't do that.





The rebuilt starter lacked the mounting tab that the old one had as a brace for the battery cable. It had a tiny Phillips screw for the starter wire rather than the healthy stud of the old starter. I had to work around those challenges -- typical problems of buying "rebuilt" rather than "new" (and no longer available, according to the parts people).

The two 10mm mounting bolts were tedious to remove. I cleaned 'em up good and used a little anti-seize on the threads when I installed the rebuilt starter. In a week I'll retighten the bolts and replace the belly pan. I need to make an extension for my obstruction wrench so I can get a bit more torque on the top bolt.

Total cost was $190 for the starter plus a $75 core charge that I'll get back, $8.50 to ship the core back to the seller, and $12 for a set of five "obstruction wrenches," total $210.50.

See this thread for a DIY with pictures.

Jeremy
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"Buster" in the '95

Our all-biodiesel family
1995 E300D (W124) . .239,000 miles My car
1996 E300D (W210) . .313,000 miles Wife's car
Santa Rosa population 170,685 (2012)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 722,685
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
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  #17  
Old 01-12-2011, 01:41 PM
aTOMic's Avatar
(Oo=*=oO)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA, Earth
Posts: 451
Hi from snowy TN!
I am having NSS probs on my 96 E320 (it freezes and a long application of heat gun cures it enough to start in N). Your great NSS post was a great deal of help.

My question do you remember / know what color wires to jump to bypass the interlock?
Is there a way to access them without jacking up the car, because it would'nt be safe to do so where it is)

Thanks in advance,
Tom (aTOMic)
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RIP "Betsy" (Oo=*=oO)
'96 E 3 2 0 (W 2 1 0) M 1 0 4
(Totalled)

Spaces in sig so as not to screw up the SEARCH; every time someone searches for that MB they don't want my sig!

2004 Audi A8L
'98 VW Passat 1.8T 5M
'87 Alfa Romeo Milano 2.5L 5M
'67 Impala convertible, 327cid
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2011, 02:38 PM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,389
Top access

To bypass the NSS, cross the violet and violet/white wires. Remember that you will then be able to engage the starter motor with the transmission in any gear.

The following info is from FSM (DVD version) for the 722.3 transmission in a 1996 W210 car with an M104 engine. I hope that's your E320.

The violet/white wire runs to the starter and then to pin 2 of X22/2, a connector in the "Engine compartment right rear, in Control module box, buried under wires."

The violet wire runs to pin 4 of X22/1, which is on the left wheel well next to the ABS pump. It is a black connector (plug/socket) with probably 6 pins and 5 in use. The heater hoses of the windshield washer bottle run near X22/1.

See pictures for these connectors.

Jeremy

Quote:
Originally Posted by aTOMic View Post
Hi from snowy TN!
I am having NSS probs on my 96 E320 (it freezes and a long application of heat gun cures it enough to start in N). Your great NSS post was a great deal of help.

My question do you remember / know what color wires to jump to bypass the interlock?
Is there a way to access them without jacking up the car, because it would'nt be safe to do so where it is)

Thanks in advance,
Tom (aTOMic)
Attached Thumbnails
W210 starting problem-nss_1603e.jpg   W210 starting problem-nss_1518e.jpg  
__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-biodiesel family
1995 E300D (W124) . .239,000 miles My car
1996 E300D (W210) . .313,000 miles Wife's car
Santa Rosa population 170,685 (2012)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 722,685
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
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  #19  
Old 01-12-2011, 06:49 PM
aTOMic's Avatar
(Oo=*=oO)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA, Earth
Posts: 451
Thanks a million!
Looks a bit different than my gasser, but I'm sure the bits are all there!
Jeremy, your posts are exemplary! (I hate unsolved posts)
-Tom
__________________
RIP "Betsy" (Oo=*=oO)
'96 E 3 2 0 (W 2 1 0) M 1 0 4
(Totalled)

Spaces in sig so as not to screw up the SEARCH; every time someone searches for that MB they don't want my sig!

2004 Audi A8L
'98 VW Passat 1.8T 5M
'87 Alfa Romeo Milano 2.5L 5M
'67 Impala convertible, 327cid
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  #20  
Old 01-13-2011, 05:54 PM
aTOMic's Avatar
(Oo=*=oO)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA, Earth
Posts: 451
Well using your first picture, today I easily located X22/1, which is a robust, thick-pinned connector, and separated the top from the bottom, jumped from #2 to #4 with a 1 inch long piece of 22 ga wire (looks to be the size coming out surprisingly) and it worked! Joy!
A pertinent note: the numbers are on the top (male) connector.

Also, as i tried to reconnect the M to F connector, the pins pushed the "lid" off the top which exposed a nicely corroded set of soldered attachment points and brittle insulation which I will need to address as soon as I finish my 2007 taxes and the billion other things I need to do.

I hope that the car doesn't "think" it's in P or N and cause some ABS, engine/transmission control, or other system to act up. I know these cars are quite complex. I'm sure we'll hear about it if there is a side effect.

I cannot tell you how much stress this has saved us, Jeremy. Thank you!

-Tom
__________________
RIP "Betsy" (Oo=*=oO)
'96 E 3 2 0 (W 2 1 0) M 1 0 4
(Totalled)

Spaces in sig so as not to screw up the SEARCH; every time someone searches for that MB they don't want my sig!

2004 Audi A8L
'98 VW Passat 1.8T 5M
'87 Alfa Romeo Milano 2.5L 5M
'67 Impala convertible, 327cid
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  #21  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:02 PM
Basstrip
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California
Posts: 111
what is the out came????

What was the out came / Did the new starter/solenoid solve your problem? I'm experiencing the similar problem, do not want to start/crank when is hot. Cold is not a problem at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
The rebuilt Bosch starter arrived yesterday, I installed it today. No problems other than slight modifications to allow the car's factory wiring to coexist with the slightly different configuration of the rebuilt starter. Took 4 hours including a lunch break and wiring modifications.

That it was a starter problem was confirmed Friday when my wife couldn't get the car to start in the heat after sitting for awhile after driving around town running errands. Per my mechanic's advice, she poured cold water on the starter and it worked.

Watch the following 15 second video and see if you agree there is something wrong with the solenoid on the old starter -- I don't think the pinion is supposed to flop in and out like that, certainly the new one doesn't do that.





The rebuilt starter lacked the mounting tab that the old one had as a brace for the battery cable. It had a tiny Phillips screw for the starter wire rather than the healthy stud of the old starter. I had to work around those challenges -- typical problems of buying "rebuilt" rather than "new" (and no longer available, according to the parts people).

The two 10mm mounting bolts were tedious to remove. I cleaned 'em up good and used a little anti-seize on the threads when I installed the rebuilt starter. In a week I'll retighten the bolts and replace the belly pan. I need to make an extension for my obstruction wrench so I can get a bit more torque on the top bolt.

Total cost was $190 for the starter plus a $75 core charge that I'll get back, $8.50 to ship the core back to the seller, and $12 for a set of five "obstruction wrenches," total $210.50.

See this thread for a DIY with pictures.

Jeremy
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2016, 11:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Philly
Posts: 417
Anyone know which relay NhDoc refers to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhdoc View Post
I would hope there would be a way to test the NSS without having to replace it under suspicion, although it sounds like your is probably the cause of the problem you are having. I had an intermittent no-crank condition on my '98 when I first bought it but it would not be cured by moving the shifter like yours was - mine happened on hot days when the engine bay was hot. At first I thought it might be the NSS but it turned out to be a small black "cube" relay in the right-front electronics box under the hood.

I was able to isolate it to that part first by unplugging relays and trying to start the car...when I found the right one the car would not crank - same as the condition I had experienced. The next time the "no crank" occurred I tapped the relay while my wife held the key in the start position and sure enough the starter began turning.

I replaced that relay (around $15) and never had the problem again. Like I said, it sounds to me like yours is the NSS but I posted this for other W210 owners who might experience a similar no-crank issue.
I know this is a very old thread, but I would like to know which relay is referred to in this quote. My e300 sometimes, too often actually, does not start and when this happens I hear a relay click from the area of the fuse box in the engine bay on the drivers side. Pushing on the shifter while in park clears the issue for a good bit as does some time, 45min+ between starts.

I've got a new FOB, battery checks out so I think I am narrowing it down to the NSS, Shift selector or whatever this relay is.
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