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  #1  
Old 08-05-2009, 01:50 PM
chetwesley's Avatar
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What would cause a clutch plate to "explode"?

Well this saga has been going on for almost nine months now... my clutch failed suddenly and without warning in november of last year.

I did all the repairs I could in my driveway to try to solve the problem (master and slave cyl, bleeding), but finally had to bring it to a shop to have them pull the transmission.

I got it back today and they gave me a box with the old clutch parts - the clutch plate had broken apart into a bunch of pieces and there was a lot of scoring on the pressure plate from all this metal flying around in there, and it had somehow damaged the throwout bearing and pilot bearing (?) and they apparently had to resurface the flywheel as well. I should be able to post pics of the parts later.

I asked the mechanic, and he said he didn't really know why this would happen. Any ideas?

The only thing I can think of is that my throttle linkage return spring broke a while ago, and I had to stop the engine which was stuck at a high RPM, killing it by slowly letting out the clutch against the breaks.

Also, I thought this was related to my clutch failure, but it turns out to apparently not be, as it is still happening - when at a stop, with the car in neutral and the clutch pedal up, there is a sort of tick tick tick tick rattling sound, sort of like a quiet jackhammer (if there could be such a thing), in sync with the RPMs of the engine. It seems to come from the area of the transmission, in the back of the engine.

I thought that it might have been related to the clutch, but now that everything has been replaced, it is still making that sound. It goes away if you press in the pedal and let it out, sometimes needing to press it in and out a couple times for it to go away.

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  #2  
Old 08-05-2009, 02:53 PM
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sucks about the clutch disk, maybe it started as a pad coming off or loose and then escalated to major failure when a small peice got jammed in somewhere it shouldnt. its hard to tell sometimes through all of the damage.

as far as the ticking, if it goes away with the clutch motion its telling you it is either the throwout (tightens with hydraulic pressure) the pressure plate (again tightens) or something in your transmission as it turns the input in neutral. what did the mechanic say? Im guessing this was not a cheap repair.
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2009, 03:00 PM
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*I had a old Duster years back,It came with a rear end for a 340.Wrong one for slant 6.It would explode every 92 days.I changed clutches,pressure plate,and bearing 6 times.But never pilot bearing.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2009, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lutzTD View Post
sucks about the clutch disk, maybe it started as a pad coming off or loose and then escalated to major failure when a small peice got jammed in somewhere it shouldnt. its hard to tell sometimes through all of the damage.

as far as the ticking, if it goes away with the clutch motion its telling you it is either the throwout (tightens with hydraulic pressure) the pressure plate (again tightens) or something in your transmission as it turns the input in neutral. what did the mechanic say? Im guessing this was not a cheap repair.
The clutch plate, pilot bearing, throwout bearing, and pressure plate were all replaced. I've got the old ones all in a box, all pretty messed up, springs and little pieces of metal all over. It's in 20+ little pieces - the main broken thing is the clutch plate, but the pilot bearing barely turns because of metal bits that got into it.

That would leave something inside the transmission making the noise. The mechanic didn't mention it and perhaps didn't notice it if they only took it out for a short spin to test it out. It happens frequently, but not every time, only in neutral with the pedal out.

And no, it was not a cheap repair. I just quadrupled the purchase cost of the car (but this was a "cheap mercedes" to start).

Also, btw, the clutch plate itself was not that worn down (aside from being in pieces)... which is similar to what I have heard other people say about the clutch plate in old 240Ds. As far as I know, the clutch has never been replaced in this car.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2009, 03:27 PM
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Something breaking up like that seems like a fatigue failure. Maybe the tranny and crankshaft are not concentric, maybe the input shaft in the tranny floats or is skewed. Verify the warranty on the work and drive the piss out of it.
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2009, 05:39 PM
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Maybe its combination,pilot bearing and output bearing on transmission.Order the best parts you can.
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2009, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon161 View Post
Something breaking up like that seems like a fatigue failure. Maybe the tranny and crankshaft are not concentric, maybe the input shaft in the tranny floats or is skewed. Verify the warranty on the work and drive the piss out of it.
Hmmm... well that doesn't sound good... there is a pretty good warranty on both parts and labor from this mechanic though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsinner111 View Post
Maybe its combination,pilot bearing and output bearing on transmission.Order the best parts you can.
Maybe you missed part of the thread - the parts have already been replaced by a mechanic.
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2009, 05:59 PM
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Not sure if this applies in your situation, but one other thing that can cause a clutch to fly apart is downshifting into a lower gear at too high of a vehicle speed. Without the pressure of the pressure plate holding things together, the clutch can fly apart due to centrifugal force. Something like shifting into first gear with the vehicle moving 50MPH, and not releasing the clutch pedal.
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:10 PM
pelon's Avatar
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huh?

The only thing I can think of is that my throttle linkage return spring broke a while ago, and I had to stop the engine which was stuck at a high RPM, killing it by slowly letting out the clutch against the breaks.

this no doubt was the cause of the failure. an old clutch abused like that is pretty sure to fail. use the shut off on the linkage. maybe the high torque in that situation warped or bend the input shaft to the tranny.
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  #10  
Old 08-05-2009, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelon View Post
this no doubt was the cause of the failure. an old clutch abused like that is pretty sure to fail. use the shut off on the linkage. maybe the high torque in that situation warped or bend the input shaft to the tranny.
Yea, I know I should have used the shutoff lever, but it was done in a panic and I was worried about the engine running away and thinking of horror stories of rods thrown through blocks and such.

I believe it was making the rattling noise before this happened, though it is hard for me to remember now. I seem to remember it has been happening since I got the car.

One other thing is that I had to re-learn to drive stick on this car (it had been a while), and I also taught my wife... I suppose all of that combined could be pretty hard on it.
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  #11  
Old 08-05-2009, 08:41 PM
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Sounds like an ISB is going out.
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2009, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervan View Post
Sounds like an ISB is going out.
In Store Bakery?
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2009, 12:35 AM
Cervan's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon161 View Post
In Store Bakery?
lol what? ISB stands for Input Shaft Bearing, hondas have these go out alot i just changed mine actually.
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Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself.
George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..)

1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won.

pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2009, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervan View Post
lol what? ISB stands for Input Shaft Bearing, hondas have these go out alot i just changed mine actually.
I looked back to the original post where I asked about this noise, and that was the answer I got back then as well, from several people. For some reason I had thought they said throwout bearing. I was also told by a couple of people that their car makes that noise too, under the same conditions...

One thing I notice is that if the idle is high enough, it doesn't make the noise. So I turned up my idle adjust knob
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2009, 03:20 PM
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Quit droppin the clutch at 5000rpm!

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