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  #16  
Old 08-15-2009, 07:47 PM
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yup - get the viscofan out of the way - then take off the tensioner pulley to expose the pivot pin - I think it is 12mm hex (allen) correct me if I'm wrong - whatever the case, its a monster and should be torqued properly and thread-locked. Again, I would seriously look at the angle of the dangle on that timing cover though - even if the belt was riding 1/8" over the pulley, there should be no reason it should shred itself to death. The early 602, 603 timing covers were redesigned in later years and have a history of failure. If this is the case, consider your belt losses a blessing. See this thread: OM603: Freak failure of timing cover. 1987 300D

Are all the other pulleys lined up with the crankshaft pulley?

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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

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Last edited by sasquatchgeoff; 08-15-2009 at 07:57 PM.
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  #17  
Old 08-15-2009, 09:04 PM
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I believe you can remove just the fan blades, leave the clutch and radiator in place (did it on my '87 300D and I've never had the radiator nor the clutch out of the car).
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2009, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasquatchgeoff View Post
yup - get the viscofan out of the way - then take off the tensioner pulley to expose the pivot pin - I think it is 12mm hex (allen) correct me if I'm wrong - whatever the case, its a monster and should be torqued properly and thread-locked. Again, I would seriously look at the angle of the dangle on that timing cover though - even if the belt was riding 1/8" over the pulley, there should be no reason it should shred itself to death. The early 602, 603 timing covers were redesigned in later years and have a history of failure. If this is the case, consider your belt losses a blessing. See this thread: OM603: Freak failure of timing cover. 1987 300D

Are all the other pulleys lined up with the crankshaft pulley?
Ahh jeez why'd you have to go and tell me that...i sure hope the timing cover isnt cracked, although i did read those 2 threads about it and it does sound similar. 2 belts balled up into little strands, slapped the bejesus out of everything within 2' circumference of the belt.

Yes all the other pulleys are lined up correctly, it was always just the tensioner pulley that was sitting about 1/16" or so too far aft, which made the belt sit 1 rib off the front of tensioner. My theory is that this unsupported section of the belt is causing the belt to tear at that rib. The tear propagates and destroys the whole belt. It doesnt appear that the tensioner is loose, or sitting cock eyed. I guess I will know more tomorrow when I get in there. Im really hoping this is just a simple spacer issue!

Quote:
I believe you can remove just the fan blades, leave the clutch and radiator in place (did it on my '87 300D and I've never had the radiator nor the clutch out of the car).
I wish that were true, Ive heard ppl say you can remove fan without removing rad. I want those ppl to do that on my car! Seriously, there is no more than 1/2" tops between the head of bolt and rad fins. I dont think the bolt could even come out without hitting rad fins. Theres no way on my car, I have no idea why its different (apparently) that other 603s. Maybe the rad is thicker or something.
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  #19  
Old 08-15-2009, 10:45 PM
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probably just as well to take the cowl, rad, viscofan off - you will need the room to inspect

If your timing cover is cracked to the point of the tensioner sitting cock-eyed, you would have oil everywhere. I think it would be far-fetched to say at this point that your timing cover is broke - but you never know until you get in there. Once you do, take some pics and post if it looks strange.
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
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  #20  
Old 08-16-2009, 12:00 PM
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ok its all taken off. tensioner main bolt very loose, i could wiggle the whole tensioner back/forth a good 1/16" . When I removed the big bolt, it was loose at first, then kinda tight, then loose, then tight...took a while to get it all the way off. hopefully thats just the locktite doing its thing..

cleaned up the area real good, cant see any signs of cracking thank God!

I examined the tensioner assy - this is the NEW unit from MB dealer. It doesnt have play in bearing, everything looks fine. Where is this "spacer" supposed to be installed? Between the tensioner body and engine cover - around the BIG bolt ? Or between the tensioner wheel and the tensioner body ?? From looking, there appears to be a spacer between wheel and tensioner body about 4mm thick. I will take the wheel off the tensioner and have a closer look. Cant remember, did the wheel come already installed on the new tensioner?
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  #21  
Old 08-16-2009, 12:54 PM
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Mine came separate. On my tensioner, no spacer on pulley. EPC shows a spacer between the tensioner body and timing cover for SOME engines. The fact that your pivot pin (giant bolt) was loose should shed some light on your belt shredding.

Examine the bolt hole in the timing cover. Look for cracks that penetrate through the edge of the hole. See photo of mine when I was freaking out about surface cracks. Note that the edge of my bolt hole is free of any cracks. If you torque a bolt into a cracked hole, it won't hold no matter how much loctite you use.
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603 serp belt shreaded-p1010038.jpg  
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
- Albert Einstein

take a walk down memory lane...
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  #22  
Old 08-16-2009, 01:09 PM
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Thanks, will look more closely.

So no spacer between pulley wheel and tensioner arm?

Just took mine apart, what looked like spacer was actually something press fit inside of the tensioner wheel bearing that protrudes 4mm from back face of pulley wheel, this is prob to keep the wheel from hitting the tensioner body.

If I shim out the whole tensioner assy, I wonder how that will affect alignment of spring, and also the damper. Im reading the EPC, its very confusing. Looks to be at least 3 different tensioner assys for that engine, hard to tell which is mine, and where that little spacer would need to be installed.

Anyways, I will look even closer at the bolt hole and make sure no cracks. Ill try to find a bolt with same threads to bolt in so I can see if the timing cover distorts as Im threading in. Thought I was out of woods on that one...

Hey thanks for all help man, I really appreciate it.
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  #23  
Old 08-16-2009, 01:27 PM
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No spacer between arm and pulley. EPC indicates presence of spacer between tensioner arm and timing cover by engine serial - since I recently rebuilt my top end, I had that number handy. If you do "shim" the tensioner arm, make sure you use the bona fide Mercedes part, not a Home Depot washer, at least for this application. I have "Home Depot" nuts, bolts, and washers all over my engine, just not there.
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
- Albert Einstein

take a walk down memory lane...
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  #24  
Old 08-16-2009, 02:14 PM
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OK I re-inspected the timing cover, its definitely not cracked. The threads were dirty, after I cleaned them up the tensioner assy bolts into it fine and can tighten to 74 lb-ft no issues. Got lucky there...

I will check at dealer on Mon to see if they can get me the spacer between the timing cover and the tensioner body. Looks like 1/8" will bring belt flush riding on the tensioner wheel, I didnt realize belt was actually hanging 1/8" off end of pulley but you can clearly see grooves in the wheel. Hopefully this is all that caused the drama. Really I'd want more like .2 to .25" spacer to make the belt centered on tensioner wheel. I'll bring my dial calipers down to dealer and measure the width of this spacer. But I wonder if just shimming the actual tensioner wheel with a few washers would accomplish same thing. Guess it would cantilever the tensioner wheel a bit farther from the tensioner arm so we'll try to do this right the 1st time (err...3rd time).

Hey on another question not related to serp belt tensioner but relevant to the carnage this all caused - there are 2 press switches on the a/c drier where the site glass is. Im left with 2 blue/red striped wires shredded, the pig tails are gone. These both went to the sensor on the top of the drier (the brown sensor). Does it matter which goes to which pin? Since they are both same color maybe its just an on.off switch that either wire can go to either position. If someone can look under the hood and verify Id be much appreciative!

I also need to get some vac line connections since those were obliterated right at the top of the tensioner spring.
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  #25  
Old 08-16-2009, 03:09 PM
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My AC is dead - Portland, OR doesn't see a lot of need for AC but I want to fix it anyway. I have yet to get into the details w/AC, so I will defer that question to an "expert."

When reinstalling the belt make sure that it is centered on all the other pulleys - I overlooked my AC compressor pulley and noticed it was one "groove" off - luckily I centered it before cranking.

Good luck!
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
- Albert Einstein

take a walk down memory lane...
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  #26  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:59 AM
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So I went to dealer and went thru all the various diagrams for the tensioner. I ended up buying 2 spacers, 1 he said was for my model, and 1 that was thicker for the later versions because I thought I needed more thickness on it.

I installed the thicker 1 1st but that actually pushed the tensioner wheel too far fwd and the belt rode off the back side of wheel. So I stuck in the thinner (.063”) spacer and whattayaknow it lined up dead on balls.

I really wish I would of known about/installed that $3 spacer before I trashed 2 serp belts, upper, lower rad hoses, a/c wiring, and vac.lines. Live and learn. Its all back together now running like a champ…but its Me = 1, fan shroud = 0, fluorescent hand held light = 0 . That shroud broke in half while trying to wedge the rad back in last night at 1am. It still works but its broken at about 5 oclock position, I hope that doesn’t give me trouble. The fluorescent handheld light was not much of a match for the grill support, I get p!ssed off easily. Wish I would of smashed it AFTER I was done crawling on my back reconnecting the trans lines into the rad. Laying on broken glass is always fun… OK Im done with stupid problems for now !! …I hope…

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