Well if you enjoy changing timing belts for entertainment, then I think that you should just go for it. I personally like the fact that I've NEVER had to change a timing chain on an MB. The timing chains outlast the engine. If the time ever comes to roll in a new one, it will take less time to do so than to change a belt on most anything beyond a 71 Pinto.

What do you NOT like about having a cam timing system that lasts longer than the rest of the engine?

My first 240D went 280,000 miles before getting rid of it with no timing chain change or any other serious engine work for that matter.

My second 240D went 380,000 miles before engine overhaul due to wear on items OTHER THAN the timing chain.

My 300E has gone 320,000 miles and still has the original timing chain in great shape.

SO... had they been TDI's I would have enjoyed the fun of changing the timing belt about 10 times during this period and that's assuming a 90,000 mile interval. Sorry, but I have other, more enjoyable things to do with my time.

I find it UNBELIEVABLE that there is ANYONE ON EARTH that would rather have a timing belt as opposed to a double roller, tensioned, timing chain.

Don't guides wear out before timing chains ?

__________________
2010 ML350 Bluetec
2012 Mustang Convertible

Like driving 30 year old buckets??? There is nothing wrong with changing TB on cars unless you are a lazy person. I love my TDI and it is MUCH more fun to drive than my Benz diesel PERIOD and could care less about changing belts.

__________________
1993 Mercedes 300D 2.5

1987 Mercedes 300D 3.0

2000 Volkswagen JETTA TDI diesel 5 speed

2002 Lexus ES300

2006 Lexus GS430

And how much had the chain "stretched" in that timeframe? A TDI is even more interference then an old benz, one tooth off and it won't run, two teeth off and valves meet pistons. I'm glad you've enjoyed long service life from your chain driven engines. I for one enjoy knowing my engine is in 100% good time, and can be adjusted as such.

I'm also sorry your benz diesel engines seem to wear out so quickly (note my signature)

-J

__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.

I prefer timing gears.

__________________
2012 Volkswagen Passat TDI - 103,000 miles
2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI - 160,000 miles
2003 Ford F-350 PowerStroke 6.0 -- sold
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300SDL -- 307,500 miles -- Retired
1991 VW Jetta GL ECOdiesel -- 429,531 miles -- RIP
2000 Volkswagen New Beetle TDI -- RIP
1987 Mercedes-Benz 190D 2.5 Turbo -- sold

I think that the moderator should close and delete this posting.
Too many people seems to be upset and start getting personal, acting like a small kids on a playground. Both cars (VW and MB) are so far apart from each other that I don't see a point of this discussion. A lot of guys here driving year 2000 + VW Diesels and comparing them to a 1979 - 1987 Mercedes diesels???? Guys if you are honest can you compare the first generation Rabbit Diesel with ANY MB Diesel??? If you want level playing field how about 2009 Passat VS 2009 E320 CDI.....any takers???
Come on grow up.

__________________
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...7/scotflag.gif http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v.../scot2flag.gif

"If women are so bloody perfect at multitasking how come they can't have a headache and sex at the same time?"
Billy Connolly

......says someone who I guess only drove Mercedes in his life. What is wrong with RABBIT DIESEL still gets 50 MPG

__________________
1993 Mercedes 300D 2.5

1987 Mercedes 300D 3.0

2000 Volkswagen JETTA TDI diesel 5 speed

2002 Lexus ES300

2006 Lexus GS430

Umm, I drove one, my sister bought one new, couldn't hold 60mph in a strong headwind. Smokey, noisy, ... generations ago in diesel evolution.

Now, anyone have a diesel rabbit pickup I can relieve you of?

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

x2

__________________
1986 300SDL, 211K,Dealership serviced its whole life
1991 190E 2.6(120k)
1983 300D(300k)
1977 300D(211k)

Come on, the handling is not that bad. At least I've never had the problem with my Jetta of "falling off the road". The only difference I can detect in handling between my MB and Jetta is that the MB has less body roll, but I've never broken traction even in the Jetta (except on snow/ice) or had any other handling problem. Unless you drive like a maniac I don't see what the big deal is.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

As I wrote above:"acting like a small kids on a playground." You just proved my point.




Looks like you know this guy

__________________
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...7/scotflag.gif http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v.../scot2flag.gif

"If women are so bloody perfect at multitasking how come they can't have a headache and sex at the same time?"
Billy Connolly

A friend of mine has one with the standard tranny (reverse is a head scratcher if you weren't warned about it). He says the only thing going for that car is the engine, the rest is crap.
He's already got paint peeling off, he's got electrical problems, etc. You can reprogram it to get some good power out of it. Just move the motor into a different car before you do.

The latest TDI's still have a timing belt as far as I know. I wouldn't mind if they switched to a chain, as long as it's durable. Not all timing chains are designed well or last long. And as noted before, while timing belts need more frequent changing, they don't stretch and are generally easier to replace than chains.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Hitler Wagons are not my thing, but my emotional reaction in this thread has not been so much against the cars. My emotional reaction is my COMPLETE and utter DISBELIEF that someone would actually PREFER a timing belt over an automatically tensioned, double roller timing chain. The fact that someone actually prefers to replace a part as opposed to being able to totally eliminate that maintenance step from their list is what is totally amazing me.

With proper oil change intervals an MB timing chain will last every bit as long as the engine. WITHOUT proper oil change intervals all bets are off as far as longevity goes, for the chain AND the engine. As far as an MB timing chain being more difficult to change than a Hitler Wagon belt, I can pull the valve cover and roll in a new chain in very short order if necessary, certainly in less time than someone could change a belt in a car with a cross ways front engine.

The handling of ANY front wheel drive car is creepy to me, BUT I fully expect that with a good, stiff, rear sway bar, the Hitler Wagon could be made to handle about as good as any front wheel drive car.

I have only owned one Hitler Wagon in my life and it was the original design that Hitler himself took credit for. It was a 68 1500 bug that I drove over 50,000 miles in a couple of years in Germany from the Summer of 69 until the Summer of 71. I had dual carbs and an extractor exhaust, high lift rocker arms, an extra sway bar under the front and a camber compensator in the rear. I had a good set of Radials on it and the little darlin' would really roll for it's time. Opening up the restricted carburetion in one of those engines did wonders for the power. I had a blast with the little car, but being rear engine, rear wheel drive, it had serious handling potential IF you knew how to drive it. Driving a rear engine car fast is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME where front engine driving habits can get you in real trouble. During that time most of the Germans bugs were 1100's and would only go about 70 down hill with a tail wind. Mine would peg the speedometer at 90 and keep picking up speed. I went by a Polizei on the Autobahn one time and his jaw LITERALLY dropped when he saw that he was being passed by a bug.

My niece has a Jetta TDI stick that I kind of like, although luckily, her Dad does all the maintenance so I don't have to change the stinking belt. The power band in the little car adds a little fun to make up for the squirrelly handling. She hasn't done anything in the form of modifications, especially not a sway bar.

As far as I'm concerned, timing belts are appeasement for the dealer network in the form of a good serviice revenue stream. That's where the advantage of a timing belt begins and where it ends.

My '82 300D rides softer than our 2006 Jetta TDI.

The TDI get double the fuel mileage, has colder A/C, a working cruise control, and handles the turns with very little body lean.

Now, the MB has tons more character, easier to work on, less expensive maintenance, and it's paid for.

My wife drives the TDI. She likes my MB.

The question is this, what will the TDI look like in 27 years? My guess is the same as all the other new cars...You open it with a can opener or a pop top.

__________________
RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K