85 300D: Ignition ANGST!!! Need Help
 

Hi,

I have searched and think I need a new ignition cylinder. But am curious if the old one can be saved.

Basically the car acts as if the ignition is engaged, but will not un-engage. In other words, the power lights are all on, but I cannot get ignition. When I take the key out, the power lights stay on. When I try to go the extra turn to engage the starter, it ticks behind the stereo (kind of like when you try to start the car in drive) but nothing happens. I was able to (once) get the ignition to reset (power lights went out and seatbelt buzz came on), but the starter would not engage when I turned the key.

The car was in the shop TODAY, and I am concerned it stuck and they sprayed lube in there. That's a no-no.

Thoughts? Pull the cylinder and soak? Just bite the bullet and buy new one? I spent ALOT of time tinkering with it to get it to reset and fire the starter. Almost lost me marbles.

Update
 

More information ...

So I pulled the tumbler. It rotates relatively freely (a little hitchy, could use a cleaning), but IF the role of the tumbler is just to allow a turning of the key -- and simply engaging the ignition switch with those 2 teeth -- then it seems to work fine.

So now I have to suspect the ignition switch? As stated, the key would turn all the way, engage the power of the car, but not engage the starter. When the key was turned to off, the power stayed on, and it would not reset.

Thoughts? I am searchin!

It may be the switch, I had to replace mine once. It's a bit of a PITA to remove, but I wold probably pull it out and check. It might only be the electical portion of the switch.

Thanks Craig. PITA because I have to take off the cluster right? If so, anyone have a link to getting that done? I was praying it's not the switch. Is it recommended to just replace the electrical part on the end? Or the whole 3-part ignition housing?

I've done it by just pushing the cluster partially out of the way without disconnecting anything. You can get to it from under the dash and loosen the "clamp" that holds it to the steering column and pressing a little locking pin out of the way. It's pretty tight, but you should be able to get the whole unit removed in about 20-30 minutes the first time. After you get it out, it should be obvious what's broken.

Cool. Thanks. One last question (as if) ...

... could the symptoms I describe (electrical power staying on while key is off and out, cannot engage starter) come from a vacuum problem with one or both of those two brown lines? I just got the car back from a buddy for engine mounts and I am wondering if connecting the vac lines wrong could mess things up at the ignition? That said, this problem was gradual. First it would not start every blue moon -- turn key back and reset and not problem. Now it's just not starting. Key does not seem to engage stages like normal. Thanks for the help.

I don't believe that a vacuum issue could affect the electrical portion of the switch. My best guess is that the electrical portion of the switch, or the keyway between the mechanical and electrical parts, is broken.

Edit: When mine broke the last time, it turned out to be the keyway so I actually had to replace both parts. When you separate the parts, you will see what I'm talking about.

By the way, do you currently have the cylinder removed from the lock?

ignition angst
 

Go to dieselgiant.com for instructions on how to remove the instrument cluster. They will also show you how to remove & replace ignition lock. Many illustrations to help you along. Bill.

Yes, cylinder is removed. Is there something I should check?

I also noticed that it looks like there is a fuel leak near the fuel filter. I wonder if it sucked in fuel and messed up the ignition switch. Just thinking out loud. i dont know how an external fuel leak would cause that. although from looking underneath the housing it does look a little wet.

Thanks.

No, I just wanted to make sure you know how to remove it. I would keep it out until you get this resolved. If you end up with the key stuck in the locked position, it has to be drilled out.

Do check out the dieselgiant.com site for some good photos.

Ok, instrument panel out. U clamp removed. Now,do I need to put the tumbler back in and re-engage the key to get the ignition unit off the steering column? It seems there is a pin designed to theft deter, but from reading other posts but I cant figure out how to deal with it. In other words, will a re-engaged key allow me to simply push the pin in? And where is this pin?

Can you see the little round "button" on the "shaft" in the photo?

http://catalog.peachparts.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=&yearid=1982%40%401982&makeid=63%40%40MERCEDES+BENZ%40%40X&modelid=6190%3AMBC%7C 1504%3AED%7C10000135%40%40300D&keyword=ignition&subcatid=P:241651@@Ignition+Lock+Housing&mode=PA

You need to press that button in to allow the ignition to be removed. I believe that you can manually push that button (pin) if it's in an unlocked position. You should be able to turn the switch with a screwdriver, if necessary, without installing the lock cylinder.

Start a new thread.
Where does it look wet? What housing?

Thanks, done. (I will start new thread about fuel leak, thanks).

So now I have the whole ignition lock housing out of the car. Now I need to test it. First thing I notice is the little white plastic piece in the center of the ignition switch is extended and does not spin or move when I move the key.

Any thoughts or references to a link for how to test the ignition unit? Really appreciate you taking me through this.

Good job. Remove the electrical portion from the main switch and take a look at the keyway between them. I have had that part break on the main switch so the electrical part doesn't turn with the switch.

Edit: see photo of keyway:

http://catalog.peachparts.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=&yearid=1982%40%401982&makeid=63%40%40MERCEDES+BENZ%40%40X&modelid=6190%3AMBC%7C 1504%3AED%7C10000135%40%40300D&keyword=ignition&subcatid=P:241656@@Ignition+Switch&mode=PA

Removed. One obvious issue and one question:

Obvious issue: protruding metal pin in the middle of the white disk that would allow the interior pin in the ignition switch to spin has failed. Sheared off. So, what is it smart to replace, assuming I dont love taking the instrument panel off :)

One Question: is there supposed to be what looks like engine oil inside the housing. Not alot but definitely there. Is that a symptom of another failure? The oil must have rode in through the vacuum lines.

Progress for sure.

Are you saying the broken part is on the main unit or the electrical portion? If it's the main unit, the replacement part includes both pieces.

There should not be engine oil in there. I have not experienced this, but I believe the usual source is the vacuum line from the shutoff valve on the injection pump. This may be current or residual from a past failure. You may want to start a new thread on this issue to get some troubleshooting tips.

I think the main unit. There is a white disk, oblong in shape, right where the pin protrudes into the unit from the vacuum lines. It's the metal piece in the center of plastic piece that sticks into the back end of the electrical portion. So I guess I should replace the whole unit. Two questions:

1) is there just one replacement, or a good one and a not so good one?

2) should I recondition or soak or clean the key cylinder before putting it back in? It seems ok, little dirty, but i dont want it to lock up.

Thanks for everything.

I don't know if there are choices for the replacement units, I suspect they all come from the same vendor but phil should be able to tell you for sure. I think the last on I bought came from the local worldpac distributor (through my shop).

You definitely don't want the cylinder to fail in the locked position. I would be careful not to use any cleaner that leaves residual behind (maybe something specifically designed for cleaning locks). When mine failed the cylinder was also getting glitchy so I replaced it too (from the dealer, keyed to match my car).

Ok, sounds good. Thanks for all the help. Now on to the oil in the housing. Again, thanks alot.