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  #1  
Old 09-27-2009, 03:34 PM
deanot442's Avatar
Diesel Dean
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canterbury CT
Posts: 204
First father/son project car 1984 300SD

Well, this will be my 5th Mercedes diesel (first pre 1986). My oldest son has always displayed an interest in the older Mercedes line and will be turning 16 in March. he has asked me for my 300SDL but (being a little selfish) I do not want to give it up. In the mean time a 1984 300SD presented itself, so now the fun begins. $1200 was the asking price and $900 was paid. As this is my first 617 engine I will be searching the forum for tips frequently. If there any pointers or quirks associated with the 617 that may be of help, they would be appreciated.

The positives:
Zero rust (besides brake rotors from sitting for a few months)
good michilin tires
Nice paint
Starts easily and runs smoothly (very little smoke)
Smooth shifting
Seats look and feel good
no cracks in the dash
No water leaks (interior)
all windows work
sunroof works
heater works


Current issues are:
Bad rear brake line
Dead tachometer
Wood trim shot
carpet is a mess
dome light not working
Under hood fuel lines leak
Lots of oil near vac pump
Fuel leaking near input of injector pump
slow drain on battery, needs to be disconnected or will drain in 5-7 days
radio doesn't play
(haven't tried the cruise)

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  #2  
Old 09-27-2009, 04:30 PM
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Location: Blue Point, NY
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The 617 is fairly bulletproof but differs from the 603 in a couple of key areas:

1) You must check and reset the valve lash every 20K or so.

2) It has a banjo fitting on the very aft end of the intake manifold that is prone to clogging. Said clogging can reach all the way to the overboost protection valve. This engine produces far more soot than the 603 so attention is needed in this area.

3) The "throttle" linkage was designed by a devious German engineer and it has more connections that you ever want to think about. Each ball joint must be popped off and lubricated every oil change.........if you want the pedal to operate smoothly.

4) The 3-2 valves in the black box on the valve cover do nothing but operate the EGR. If you're going to disconnect the EGR anyway, remove all traces of these valves to that the linkage operates smoother

5) The engine will likely benefit from an ALDA adjustment. CCW on the screw........very gently........by one turn. Some have removed the ALDA completely with mixed successes.

6) Depending on mileage, the oil chain pump tensioner is usually due for replacement at 250K..........a failure here is catastrophic.

7) Depending on maintenance, the elongation of the chain should be checked and the chain replaced if it's excessive (more than 8 degrees or so). If less than 8 degrees, a suitable offset key can be utilized on the camshaft.
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  #3  
Old 09-27-2009, 04:45 PM
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Diesel Dean
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canterbury CT
Posts: 204
Thanks Brian. she has 266K on her so I will definitely look into the oil pump chain tensioner.

chain elongation, I'm guessing, refers to the timing chain?

my next purchase is going to be for the service manual on CD, i have it for the 603 and love it.

thanks again for the tips!
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  #4  
Old 09-27-2009, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanot442 View Post
chain elongation, I'm guessing, refers to the timing chain?
Yep, you can get a quick read if you align the mark on the camshaft thrust washer (at the very front of the cam) with the mark on the #1 tower. With those marks perfectly aligned (you need another person with someone underneath rotating the crankshaft with a 27mm socket and a 1" extension), you can read the crank damper for a quick indication of how late it is.
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  #5  
Old 09-27-2009, 05:13 PM
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Location: College Park, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
6) Depending on mileage, the oil chain pump tensioner is usually due for replacement at 250K..........a failure here is catastrophic.

Hi Brian, let me just make sure I understand what you're talking about here... I'm familiar with the need to replace the spring and rail on the tensioner for the timing chain, but have not heard of a the need to replace the 'oil chain pump tensioner'. I looked in the FSM, and found a picture of the chain that drives it. It doesn't explicitly refer to any part as a tensioner, but there is a 'oil chain pump guide/rail' (mercedes part # 617 181 00 59) and 'torsion spring' that keeps it under tension. Are you recommending the replacement of the spring, the rail, or both? In your experience, with what frequency will the oil pump fail if this is not done?

This is quite relevant for me, as my 1984 300SD is pushing 361K and I have no idea whether or not this was ever done, and I've only had it since 348K. I'm planning on gapping the valves again within the next week or two, and am going to check the timing chain stretch then to ascertain whether or not I need a new one. My plan is to slap a woodruff key in there if it's below 6-7 degrees, and replace it and the chain tensioner otherwise.

Apologies if this counts as thread hijacking... but good luck with your new old car.
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1984 300SD, 375XXX miles, Light Ivory w/ Palomino TEX
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  #6  
Old 09-27-2009, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainlair View Post
Hi Brian, let me just make sure I understand what you're talking about here... I'm familiar with the need to replace the spring and rail on the tensioner for the timing chain, but have not heard of a the need to replace the 'oil chain pump tensioner'. I looked in the FSM, and found a picture of the chain that drives it. It doesn't explicitly refer to any part as a tensioner, but there is a 'oil chain pump guide/rail' (mercedes part # 617 181 00 59) and 'torsion spring' that keeps it under tension. Are you recommending the replacement of the spring, the rail, or both? In your experience, with what frequency will the oil pump fail if this is not done?

This is quite relevant for me, as my 1984 300SD is pushing 361K and I have no idea whether or not this was ever done, and I've only had it since 348K. I'm planning on gapping the valves again within the next week or two, and am going to check the timing chain stretch then to ascertain whether or not I need a new one. My plan is to slap a woodruff key in there if it's below 6-7 degrees, and replace it and the chain tensioner otherwise.

Apologies if this counts as thread hijacking... but good luck with your new old car.
Firstly, I haven't yet done it........I'm relating comments from Jim Ellington who's done several.

From my understanding, the torsion spring can fail at that mileage and result in the loss of the chain. Depending on the condition of the guide, you might want to consider that as well, but he hadn't mentioned it.

Do a search on "engatwork" and check out some of his posts on the issue.

At 361K, you're way overdue and inviting a disaster.
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2009, 05:58 PM
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Thanks a lot for pointing me in the right direction Brian, I've found several threads in which he talks about it. So far that's definitely above my pay grade as a DIYer, it looks like you need to pull the upper oil pan to replace the oil pump chain tensioner, spring and bushing.

Yet another thing on the to do list....
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1984 300SD, 375XXX miles, Light Ivory w/ Palomino TEX
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  #8  
Old 09-27-2009, 10:31 PM
RML RML is offline
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Location: Southwest PA
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If you have a slow electricity leak (short) and the radio does not work, I would suspect the power antenna or radio. I am not positive that the fuse blocks are the same on the SD (yours) and the D (mine), but if they are, the antenna is on fuse 2, and the radio is on fuse 4. You probably know this procedure, but I will review it in case not. Pull off the negative terminal and hook up a multimeter between the negative terminal post and negative cable to see if any current is flowing while everything is turned off, doors closed, trunk closed and key in pocket. Remove one fuse at a time to see if you can see which circuit the short is on. Once you isolate the circuit, then try to isolate the component that is causing the short.
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  #9  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:58 PM
LarryBible
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Use the AMMETER function of the multimeter when connecting it in series with one of the battery cables to look for your battery drain. You should not see more than about 100 MilliAmps at the most. If you do, begin disconnecting fuses one at a time until you see the current go down sharply. That is your shorted or leaking circuit.

The main reason I chimed in is to encourage the time with your son on this car. I did this with my son. We restored a 65 Chevy Short Bed pickup and then he took my 240D and we kept it up in shape. I then did the same with my daughter on a 300D and was amazed how good of a "car guy" she turned out to be. She knows more about the inner workings of a car than most of the guys she knows.

ANYTHING that you can do to spend time with your kids is worth at least as much as you put into it. Strangely enough, you will get it all back in spades.
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  #10  
Old 09-28-2009, 05:21 PM
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I was hoping someone would see the real opportinity in this thread. What Larry said....i did bicycles with my son, then go-carts and even carsat a very young age. I gotta share the first one. He was five or six but understood money was a good thing. He saved my change and cans and he had a pretty good stash. I told him we needed to find a beater to turn so. we go look at an MGB that had been parked with a bad starter 3 years earlier. He and I talked about the problems and how we might fix it and what we might sell it for and He bought it for 500$. my wife and I tow it about 2 miles to our place and we start cleaning it up and looking at issues. Charged the battery, found a fuel leak and tried to turn it over....I could tell it was out of time. I retarded it and tried again this time it turned over and fired up. Holy jeez he was jumping up and down and he thought I was the man.... we sold it and he got 1/2 the profit as was our agreement. Well he's 22 now and graduating as an ME from the U of A. We still work on cars together and take trips together. ITS GREAT. I just wish my dad would have liked all things mechanical. Had to share...For the OP get your son involved and let him take ownership and pride in what you both do. Good luck. Any car can be fixed with money but a relationship no money can fix. Thanks
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  #11  
Old 09-28-2009, 07:08 PM
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Diesel Dean
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canterbury CT
Posts: 204
Thanks for the story doc!! Andrew (my oldest) has always shared an interest in repairing cars and just fixing things in general. I probably take for granted the amount of time we spend working on other projects together. It often takes some one reminding me that I am very fortunate to have this relationship with my boys for me to really appreciate it. For instance, tonight I helped HIM repair a broken light fixture in our den. He is enrolled in an electrical program at his HS and is teaching me about house wiring (too weird). i took some pics of the project so far. I tried to get a close up pic of the fuel leak near the pump, what is the knurled dial shaped item?
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2009, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by deanot442 View Post
I tried to get a close up pic of the fuel leak near the pump, what is the knurled dial shaped item?
You've discovered a primer pump. Doesn't exist on a 603 but allows you to manually prime a 617 prior to starting it, if necessary. Yours, like most of its vintage, is leaking and it's replacement time. The new one doesn't look like the old one at all and is completely sealed.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-2009, 07:17 PM
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Diesel Dean
 
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Location: Canterbury CT
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Cool, I had my suspicions that it may be the primer but i figured you guys would know for sure.
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanot442 View Post
Thanks for the story doc!! Andrew (my oldest) has always shared an interest in repairing cars and just fixing things in general. I probably take for granted the amount of time we spend working on other projects together. It often takes some one reminding me that I am very fortunate to have this relationship with my boys for me to really appreciate it. For instance, tonight I helped HIM repair a broken light fixture in our den. He is enrolled in an electrical program at his HS and is teaching me about house wiring (too weird). i took some pics of the project so far. I tried to get a close up pic of the fuel leak near the pump, what is the knurled dial shaped item?
Consider yourself very fortunate that your son has an interest in driving good cars. I test drove a MINT 85 300CD a few months back and when I asked why the owner was selling it he said "Because my son is going to start driving soon and he's embarrassed by this car. He wants a Honda." ......when I heard that I nearly fainted I know its personal taste but still....I think that that is a decision he will one day regret.

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Old 09-28-2009, 07:28 PM
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Diesel Dean
 
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Agreed!

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