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  #16  
Old 10-11-2009, 11:41 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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All of this is just guessing. YOu don't know what is damaged until you pull the head and the pan and look at the bearings.
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Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins& six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I am finishing a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual....I also have a Lotus 7 replica autocrosser with a modified K20 Acura engine.
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  #17  
Old 10-12-2009, 02:04 PM
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There's no guessing here. The engine is scrap metal at this point. The cam probably weaken without cracking when it was running with no oil. It was probably under extreme heat. By the time you filled it, the damage was done. It just didn't snap yet. hence the reason you managed another 80 miles. (you mentioned that it ran but didn't sounds right. My guess is the cam was warped.) But with the cam beaking like that at what was probably highway speeds, valves are shot, block must be a disaster. Don't dump any money into trying to get this fixed. If you need piece of mind, find someone to pull the head and do a quick biopsy of the block. Then try and salvage whatever may be usable and sell the parts. The IP should get you a few bucks on ebay.
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1999 E300 TD 178,000 miles
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1998 E300 TD - R.I.P.
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  #18  
Old 10-12-2009, 02:13 PM
truckinik's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemass1221 View Post
There's no guessing here. The engine is scrap metal at this point. The cam probably weaken without cracking when it was running with no oil. It was probably under extreme heat. By the time you filled it, the damage was done. It just didn't snap yet. hence the reason you managed another 80 miles. (you mentioned that it ran but didn't sounds right. My guess is the cam was warped.) But with the cam beaking like that at what was probably highway speeds, valves are shot, block must be a disaster. Don't dump any money into trying to get this fixed. If you need piece of mind, find someone to pull the head and do a quick biopsy of the block. Then try and salvage whatever may be usable and sell the parts. The IP should get you a few bucks on ebay.
Or, you could just find someone who owns a Boroscope, and check the inside out without taking anything apart at all. Call around, some shops have them. I have one, recently purchased from the Snap-On truck. You are bound to find a shop with one in your area.
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  #19  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:16 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemass1221 View Post
There's no guessing here. The engine is scrap metal at this point. The cam probably weaken without cracking when it was running with no oil. It was probably under extreme heat. By the time you filled it, the damage was done. It just didn't snap yet. hence the reason you managed another 80 miles. (you mentioned that it ran but didn't sounds right. My guess is the cam was warped.) But with the cam beaking like that at what was probably highway speeds, valves are shot, block must be a disaster. Don't dump any money into trying to get this fixed. If you need piece of mind, find someone to pull the head and do a quick biopsy of the block. Then try and salvage whatever may be usable and sell the parts. The IP should get you a few bucks on ebay.
have you ever had one of these break a cam before? I have. Your assessment is based on what?

You don't know what you have until you pull the head. I bought a motor once with a siezed cam shaft. The cam was siezed but the bottom end was free. I wouldn't be surprised if the bearing damage is not major and the bores might well be just fine.
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Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins& six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I am finishing a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual....I also have a Lotus 7 replica autocrosser with a modified K20 Acura engine.
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  #20  
Old 10-12-2009, 09:19 PM
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I did. My '98 E300 cam shaft broke in three places. Shattered pieces all over the place. Metal shrapnel in the oil pan. Valves bent. pistons damaged. Hence, below on cars owned, 1998 E300 TD - R.I.P. But that's why I said for piece of mind have someone take a look. But, yes I am talking from experience. And I'm following this thread out of curiosity of the outcome. So Ray, please keep us updated.
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  #21  
Old 11-05-2009, 09:02 PM
CAJUN COUNTRY
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
have you ever had one of these break a cam before? I have. Your assessment is based on what?

You don't know what you have until you pull the head. I bought a motor once with a siezed cam shaft. The cam was siezed but the bottom end was free. I wouldn't be surprised if the bearing damage is not major and the bores might well be just fine.
Walgamuth. thanks for the positive motivation.
I went to the pull a part. Had to go 150 miles to get the overhead can and supports, but I did a valve job installed every thing and it still turned rough so i didn't run it but for a moment. I pulled the valve cover and the area was dry of oil. Had to be the oil pump I thought. The only oil pump I could find was 150 miles away on the same 240 I got the overhead cam from. I had removed the pump and it was broken. If I'd thought to check the oil pump when the pressure was low I'd probably have saved the cam shaft. It must have gotten damaged when the oil pan got busted. I changed the filter also. After installing the pump and filling with oil It started up easy and ran smooth after a few seconds. I SAVED IT FROM THE DOOM EVERYONE ELSE WAS PREACHING TO ME. Also thanks to PHIL for telling me a pump from a 300d was alike in looks buy wouldn't work. I was going to take one off of a 300d.
OH Happy Day.
Moral of the story. If your pan bets banged bad check the oil pump no matter what.
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  #22  
Old 11-06-2009, 02:03 AM
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You were pretty lucky or fortunate to get away with this on almost any engine. Might be an ideal to also buy a five dollar lotto ticket this week.

Now if you were to win that as well. You could fairly claim that denting your oil pan and destroying your oil pump and camshaft pays off in the long haul.

I seldom gamble but think you may have beaten the odds. I would not have placed a bet on this outcome. Never hurts to get a break once in awhile though.

What really saved the situation probably was that the engine coolant might have helped by keeping the temperatures lower in some areas. If the engine is not smoking more than before the temper in the rings remains as well.
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  #23  
Old 11-06-2009, 08:56 AM
mild insomniac, maybe? :D
 
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray m View Post
Walgamuth. thanks for the positive motivation.
I went to the pull a part. Had to go 150 miles to get the overhead can and supports, but I did a valve job installed every thing and it still turned rough so i didn't run it but for a moment. I pulled the valve cover and the area was dry of oil. Had to be the oil pump I thought. The only oil pump I could find was 150 miles away on the same 240 I got the overhead cam from. I had removed the pump and it was broken. If I'd thought to check the oil pump when the pressure was low I'd probably have saved the cam shaft. It must have gotten damaged when the oil pan got busted. I changed the filter also. After installing the pump and filling with oil It started up easy and ran smooth after a few seconds. I SAVED IT FROM THE DOOM EVERYONE ELSE WAS PREACHING TO ME. Also thanks to PHIL for telling me a pump from a 300d was alike in looks buy wouldn't work. I was going to take one off of a 300d.
OH Happy Day.
Moral of the story. If your pan bets banged bad check the oil pump no matter what.
wow oh wow!

glad to hear that things are looking better than they could have!
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  #24  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:54 PM
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Well, I just read this thread for the first time. Reading through all the answers I didn't see anyone mention the oil pump. So this was going to be my suggestion, but I see you already found that out. The cam being the last to get oil is the first to go. If there is oil in the pan the splashing around usually keeps the rod bearings wet enough, at least for a little while. It's a good thing that Mercedes cranks are nearly bullet proof. I used to grind crankshafts for a few years. I was always amazed at MB shafts that would come in with bearing material stuck on them. 9 out of 10 wouldn't need anything but a clean up and a grind, and still hold the required hardness.. Glad you sorted the problem.
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  #25  
Old 11-21-2009, 02:35 AM
CAJUN COUNTRY
 
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A sense of The situation as it unfolded and being there, along with being a 35 yr diesel nut helped. Hard headed helps, and knowing over the yrs that if I check behind my mechanic or question thier conclusions can pay off. My mechanic charged me $65.00 and told me I needed a new motor. What did he do for the $65.00
Oh Lottery ticket didn't pay off. But I usually don't bet on an outcome until I have all my cards in a row. Lucky me any way. I originally thought it was toast also.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
You were pretty lucky or fortunate to get away with this on almost any engine. Might be an ideal to also buy a five dollar lotto ticket this week.

Now if you were to win that as well. You could fairly claim that denting your oil pan and destroying your oil pump and camshaft pays off in the long haul.

I seldom gamble but think you may have beaten the odds. I would not have placed a bet on this outcome. Never hurts to get a break once in awhile though.

What really saved the situation probably was that the engine coolant might have helped by keeping the temperatures lower in some areas. If the engine is not smoking more than before the temper in the rings remains as well.
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  #26  
Old 11-21-2009, 07:36 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Ray sent me a very nice personal message of thanks so that I could share in his victory and sense of accomplishment.

He is a generous man.

It is supposed to be a sunny mid sixties day here in central Indiana....a real rarity in November. I just know it will be a wonderful day!
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Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins& six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I am finishing a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual....I also have a Lotus 7 replica autocrosser with a modified K20 Acura engine.
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  #27  
Old 11-21-2009, 07:41 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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The cam being the last to get oil is the first to go.

This fact was what I concluded thirty years ago when I discovered that the cam only was seized on my motor which I had gotten in a $50 '61 220 fintail parts car.

My brother sometime later blew up the motor in his '66 230 and we put my old motor in his car with his camshaft. He got several more years of use out of it after that.

The lesson to remember is you don't know what is damaged (if there are no obvious signs like a smoking, dripping hole in the side of the block), until you pull it apart and do a survey.
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Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins& six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I am finishing a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual....I also have a Lotus 7 replica autocrosser with a modified K20 Acura engine.
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  #28  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:51 AM
CAJUN COUNTRY
 
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AFTER ALL WAS DONE, i FOUND IT WAS GIVING A BLUE SMOKE THAT IS INDICATIVE OF A NEED FOR A VALVE STEM CHANGE. I DID THAT . I THEN DID A VALVE JOB AND IT NOW RUNS GREAT WITH NO OIL USE. OH HAPPY DAY
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  #29  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:14 AM
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You better get an oil pump & a set of bearings as well. Probably a couple of pistons, a rod or 2 and valves. The engine has no comp because when the cam broke, valves were down & the pistons came up. The motor is now only good for a boat anchor.
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  #30  
Old 01-19-2010, 07:08 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray m View Post
AFTER ALL WAS DONE, i FOUND IT WAS GIVING A BLUE SMOKE THAT IS INDICATIVE OF A NEED FOR A VALVE STEM CHANGE. I DID THAT . I THEN DID A VALVE JOB AND IT NOW RUNS GREAT WITH NO OIL USE. OH HAPPY DAY

Great!

Its great that it worked out for you.
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Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins& six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I am finishing a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual....I also have a Lotus 7 replica autocrosser with a modified K20 Acura engine.
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