Maintenance Cost per Mile: Here's Mine, What's Yours? - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jeremy5848 · #76 07-01-2013, 09:15 PM

This is an interesting subject and one that I've often wondered about. Looking at whunter's note that "oil changes" should not be included, I interpret that to mean routine maintenance, stuff that any car requires, should be factored out. Then there are things that wear out over time/miles, like tires. Next are things you add or replace because you want to, not because the car really needs it. Finally there are things that break or wear out unexpectedly and prematurely. The last category is clearly one for the cents-per-mile maintenance number; one could argue forever about including any or all of the other stuff.

Specifics
The '96 E300 (wife's car, W210, OM606NA, 250,000+ miles) has been with us for over 5 years. I do most of my own work and shop around for parts and supplies. The following includes all maintenance but not insurance, registration, cost to purchase, etc.

2009 $0.19/mile
2010 $0.08
2011 $0.04
2012 $0.29 (high because I replaced the vacuum pump as a precaution)

OTOH, the 1995 E300 (my car, W124, OM606NA, 200,000 miles), which I've now had for 15 months, has had as much spent on it in maintenance as it cost to buy it in the first place ($4700 to buy, $5200 on maintenance). A lot of that is stuff that I wanted to do -- replace the pitted windshield, for example, $287. If I eliminate all but the stuff that actually broke then the costs go 'way down.

Where do you draw the line?

Jeremy

shertex · #77 07-01-2013, 11:44 PM

The drawing of the line is admittedly somewhat arbitrary....although I'm not sure I see the logic in excluding oil changes but not other regular maintenance. I think some items constitute a grey area between routine maintenance and a broken part. Everything ultimately wears out with enough use. So why include, say, an aux water pump but exclude a brake rotor in maintenance costs?

I guess it in part depends on the comparison you want to do: between another car you own, a new car, a leased car, etc....

The cardinal rule, of course, is....never let your wife see this thread.

Shortsguy1 · #78 07-02-2013, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

Depreciation should not be in the formula for this exercise. You have not sold it yet so it is not realized.

Though difficult to predict, depreciation HAS to be part of any real Cost per Mile calculation. Without its inclusion, virtually every new car will be "cheaper" to own than our old MBs. Yet, we all drive these older cars. And many of us do it because of our frugality. I would venture to guess that many of us do include depreciation (or its lack thereof) when we decided to buy older cars as daily drivers, even if we couldn't put an exact number on it.

Brian Carlton · #79 07-02-2013, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

Though difficult to predict, depreciation HAS to be part of any real Cost per Mile calculation. Without its inclusion, virtually every new car will be "cheaper" to own than our old MBs. Yet, we all drive these older cars. And many of us do it because of our frugality. I would venture to guess that many of us do include depreciation (or its lack thereof) when we decided to buy older cars as daily drivers, even if we couldn't put an exact number on it.

Depreciation isn't all that difficult to predict for vehicles that cost $3-$6K when originally purchased.

Typical depreciation on them is about $500. per year, possibly less if very well maintained.

Results is about $.03 per mile. Not a significant part of the operating cost when one realizes that fuel is now $.16.

Jeremy5848 · #80 07-02-2013, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Depreciation isn't all that difficult to predict for vehicles that cost $3-$6K when originally purchased.

Typical depreciation on them is about $500. per year, possibly less if very well maintained.

Results is about $.03 per mile. Not a significant part of the operating cost when one realizes that fuel is now $.16.

A good point, Brian. Adding other required regular expenses (insurance and registration) means that the cost of driving a "perfect" old car (no maintenance expenses at all) is on the order of $0.20 per mile. Folks who carry only the absolute minimum insurance and live in a state with low registration fees obviously save a few pennies. Nonetheless, a carefully-chosen old Mercedes, in the absence of really bad luck, will probably have maintenance costs less than fuel costs per mile.

Jeremy

Brian Carlton · #81 07-02-2013, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

Nonetheless, a carefully-chosen old Mercedes, in the absence of really bad luck, will probably have maintenance costs less than fuel costs per mile.

Jeremy

If you maintain it properly with your own labor, the maintenance costs are going to be about $.08 per mile. Anyone who claims less is simply delaying the inevitable and/or running the vehicle toward the ground.

Plenty of folks maintain for $.03 for two or three years.............then, all of a sudden, the vehicle is sold...........

The total cost of operation is about $.30, including everything..............about 1/2 the cost of a new vehicle.

ah-kay · #82 07-02-2013, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

Though difficult to predict, depreciation HAS to be part of any real Cost per Mile calculation. Without its inclusion, virtually every new car will be "cheaper" to own than our old MBs. Yet, we all drive these older cars. And many of us do it because of our frugality. I would venture to guess that many of us do include depreciation (or its lack thereof) when we decided to buy older cars as daily drivers, even if we couldn't put an exact number on it.

It states 'Maintenance Costs per Mile", not "Total real running costs per mile". IRS rate for mileage is 56.5cents per mile for 2013. So if you work out maintenance, consumable, fuel costs, insurance, road tax and depreciation and is less than 56.5 then you are ahead of the game.

shertex · #83 07-02-2013, 06:21 AM

A figure that interests me is maintenance costs plus purchase price amortized over mileage. Hence the running contest between our 92 300D and our 02 Odyssey.

The Odyssey, bought new and now with 165,000 miles, is at 20.4 cents per mile.

The 300D, which I've now driven 107,000 miles, is at 25.6 cents per mile.

Originally I had hopes that the Benz would win this competition.....now it looks hopeless.

Maybe there's hope for the 91 300D. Bought with lower mileage for less money, it starts in a stronger position. But I've only driven it 31,000 miles, so too early to tell.

Brian Carlton · #84 07-02-2013, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

The Odyssey, bought new and now with 165,000 miles, is at 20.4 cents per mile.

That is truly phenomenal and shows the build quality of such a vehicle.

Did you use about $20K as the amortization?

I know a person with a Pilot that has close to 300K on the clock. They never opened the hood themselves. I'll bet their costs are very close to $.12.

Really makes you wonder why we should wrench these things forever................

shertex · #85 07-02-2013, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

That is truly phenomenal and shows the build quality of such a vehicle.

Did you use about $20K as the amortization?

I know a person with a Pilot that has close to 300K on the clock. They never opened the hood themselves. I'll bet their costs are very close to $.12.

Really makes you wonder why we should wrench these things forever................

The Odyssey cost $26,000 new, including the extended warranty to 100,000 miles. Adding in maintenance costs during this period (tires, oil, brakes, etc., plus timing belt and water pump), it comes to $29,785.

The impressive part is that, over the next 65,000 miles, I have spent only $3800. That includes all the typical stuff plus engine mounts, struts, and a window regulator. This comes to 5.9 cents per mile....and of course it would be even cheaper for someone who did all his own work.

Jeremy5848 · #86 07-02-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Really makes you wonder why we should wrench these things forever................

I suspect for some of us it's because we enjoy wrenching and because we enjoy having people admire our old cars that we keep so nice. (Obviously there are a number of assumptions in the above statement).

Certainly it's possible to buy a new car, drive it 100,000 miles, and (absent bad luck) do almost nothing to it in the way of maintenance. Then you trade it in on another new one and let the used car market worry about the things you haven't done. Such cars provide (usually) reliable, inexpensive transportation and are called "appliances."

Jeremy

Shortsguy1 · #87 07-02-2013, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

It states 'Maintenance Costs per Mile", not "Total real running costs per mile". IRS rate for mileage is 56.5cents per mile for 2013. So if you work out maintenance, consumable, fuel costs, insurance, road tax and depreciation and is less than 56.5 then you are ahead of the game.

Haha, you are right. The conversation had shifted to purchase prices of minivans and fuel costs etc, so I forgot the original title of the thread.

tjts1 · #88 07-02-2013, 12:04 PM

You should probably include the cost of your time wrenching on the car which most people seem to ignore. But if you enjoy working on your car and you should probably subtract that time from the equation. Then again if you enjoy working on a car but run into a problem that you really hate... then it gets complicated. This is all a little too OCD for me. All I know is fuel costs me 9.5 cents per mile plus $500 in parts since I bought the car 10,000 miles ago. Thats as far as I'm going to take it.

ah-kay · #89 07-02-2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

A figure that interests me is maintenance costs plus purchase price amortized over mileage.

How do you amortize the purchase price over mileage? You amortize over time. You do not know how long you will keep the car. This is my $0.02 on maintenance costs.

1) If you wrench it yourself then labor costs is excluded.
2) Depreciation costs is excluded.
3) There is no 'one time' charge, as they call it in stock market GAAP expenses. One time charge will lead to another one time charge. All costs that is needed to keep the car in a safe/drivable condition on the road is counted.
4) Insurance and road tax is excluded.
5) Fuel costs is excluded.

From an economic point of view, the best bet is really to lease a new car for $xxx per month which includes normal oil changes and free maintenance. Lease it for 3 years and drive it to the max mileage allowed under the term of the lease then do it all over again. You probably will find it a better deal then wrenching on old MBZ bangers.

btw: Personally I would not do it, I like my old bangers.

Jeremy5848 · #90 07-02-2013, 01:31 PM

[QUOTE=shertex;3169095]A figure that interests me is maintenance costs plus purchase price amortized over mileage. Hence the running contest between our 92 300D and our 02 Odyssey.

The Odyssey, bought new and now with 165,000 miles, is at 20.4 cents per mile.

/QUOTE]

My brother also had a 2002 Odyssey, kept it for 4 years and 80,000 miles. Nothing ever broke or wore out and it was sold only to get something that could be towed behind a motorhome. He didn't keep any numbers but maintenance costs obviously would have been very low, on the order of yours or better.

Jeremy