Sub-par Quality Oil Filters - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

compress ignite · #31 11-12-2009, 09:58 PM

speedybenz got me started on this quest,by displaying K+P's product in another post.

http://www.kandpengineering.com/filters.shtml

I talked to them Today about a 601 180 01 09 version of the Filter that they've
made up for the AMG canister.
'Would fit Diesels from '82 to '95.
They're gonna obtain an O.E. filter from MB for comparison.

Advantages would be: An 8 Micron absolute filtration WASHABLE element.
I've my fingers crossed!

Below is the Absolute 8 Micronic Stain-Less Steel Mesh filter element they make for the AMGs.

pawoSD · #32 11-12-2009, 10:04 PM

Yikes on that FRAM filter.

I just installed one of those in my car today! However, I've probably used 20 of them by now in all of our cars, and none have come out looking remotely like the picture....that thing must have been in there a LONG time.

I am probably going to be switching to the Baldwin filters soon anyways, and buying them 12 at a time. I'm going to be doing an oil change every 2ish months now with my new commute, so I'm going to need a lot of them!

Gurkha · #33 11-12-2009, 10:08 PM

Dunno whats the hype on Fram filters, in motorcycle world they are considered crud anyways. One motorcycle magazine tested them against standard Japanese filters and found them to be quite lacking compared to the OEM.

Diesel911 · #34 11-13-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

Where are all the millions of Mercedes diesel engines that have been killed by the many many millions of Mahle filters used over the last couple decades! It's a shame that after long debate and research here on the forum it wasn't found that packed cotton fiber filter used by the millions over many years caused any significant verifiable damage. How many forum members have actually had an engine damaged by filter material?

You'd think that, arguably some of the best engineering staff of again arguably, one of the oldest and most successful automotive manufactures the world has know, would be at least able to spec the single most commonly replaced maintenance part!

I am not seeing the argument here. Better filtration clearly gives better protection and helps things to last longer unless it becomes so restrictive as to mess with performance.

I want better Filtration and I have/am taking steps to that.

I also have also replaced my Secondary Fuel Filter with a 2 absolute Micron CAT Fuel Filter and plan to replace the Plastic Primary Filter with a VW Rabbit 10 Nominal Micron spin-on Filter that has a drain. I already have the parts I just have other issues to deal with.

If it seems like bragging so what. I read about peoples Intercoolers, Modified M Pumps and even replacing the Solid Brake Rotors with vented ones; or how about the folks that installed different Rims on their car.

At this time those thing do not interest me; there are things I would like to remain stock also.
If someone only wants to use Stock Oil Filters I am OK with that.

This forum itself is a little more extreme than the other forums I have visited.

jt20 · #35 11-13-2009, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I am not seeing the argument here. Better filtration clearly gives better protection and helps things to last longer unless it becomes so restrictive as to mess with performance.

I want better Filtration and I have/am taking steps to that.

I also have also replaced my Secondary Fuel Filter with a 2 absolute Micron CAT Fuel Filter and plan to replace the Plastic Primary Filter with a VW Rabbit 10 Nominal Micron spin-on Filter that has a drain. I already have the parts I just have other issues to deal with.

If it seems like bragging so what. I read about peoples Intercoolers, Modified M Pumps and even replacing the Solid Brake Rotors with vented ones; or how about the folks that installed different Rims on their car.

At this time those thing do not interest me; there are things I would like to remain stock also.
If someone only wants to use Stock Oil Filters I am OK with that.

This forum itself is a little more extreme than the other forums I have visited.

amen brother.

GregoryV022 · #36 11-13-2009, 12:34 AM

ive been using purolator in all my cars forever. they filter very very very well, and i change them with each oil change. theyve all been fine when i removed them.

sasquatchgeoff · #37 11-13-2009, 12:36 AM

I think the concept "frequently change" is the whole thrust of this thread...

Gurkha · #38 11-13-2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregoryV022

ive been using purolator in all my cars forever. they filter very very very well, and i change them with each oil change. theyve all been fine when i removed them.

Those are the common one I can get, now Mahle group has bought out Purolator here and market their filters branded as Mahle, they are also supplied to BOSCH who market them under their name.

Billybob · #39 11-13-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I am not seeing the argument here.

Argument? You are free to do anything you'd like, if you feel good about it great.

The post I referenced was the suitability of oil filters meeting Mercedes OEM specifications. Specifically:

"Because they are filled with cotton gin waste, after long debate and research in another thread here on the forum, it was found that there are a select few filters that do not spill dirt and cotton waste into the engine."

I followed the thread referenced in this statement as well as similar threads and pose the question:

"Where are all the millions of Mercedes diesel engines that have been killed by the many many millions of Mahle filters used over the last couple decades!? It's a shame that after long debate and research here on the forum it wasn't found that packed cotton fiber filter used by the millions over many years caused any significant verifiable damage. How many forum members have actually had an engine damaged by filter material?

You'd think that, arguably some of the best engineering staff of again arguably, one of the oldest and most successful automotive manufactures the world has know, would be at least able to spec the single most commonly replaced maintenance part!"

I take it you don't have an answer to that question?

I'd suggest anybody with questions about suitability of OEM spec filters read the original thread is for no other reason than amusement. The "debate and research" in my opinion are illuminating, maybe more about the debaters and researchers than the actual factual suitability of one filter over another.

I'm of the opinion that if in fact "there are a select few filters that do not spill dirt and cotton waste into the engine" there would be considering the vast numbers of them dead MB diesel engine vehicles everywhere. There in fact is not. To the contrary in fact it is almost universally accepted the MB diesel lower ends are some of the longest lasting of all engine, and how that could be with dirt and cotton waste spilling into engines is improbable, no?

It makes you feel good to fool around with some different filters so be it but there is little evidence that in the real world you'll be driving much longer than the guy that buys a decent OEM brand that probably hundreds of millions of oil changes have used.

"If someone only wants to use Stock Oil Filters I am OK with that." I'm sure everyone will be relieved to hear that!

jt20 · #40 11-13-2009, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasquatchgeoff

I think the concept "frequently change" is the whole thrust of this thread...

absolute Ditto.

The filter that you posted was obviously neglected. No filter will ever disintegrate like that during the recommended service interval.

jt20 · #41 11-13-2009, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

"Because they are filled with cotton gin waste, after long debate and research in another thread here on the forum, it was found that there are a select few filters that do not spill dirt and cotton waste into the engine."

"Where are all the millions of Mercedes diesel engines that have been killed by the many many millions of Mahle filters used over the last couple decades!? It's a shame that after long debate and research here on the forum it wasn't found that packed cotton fiber filter used by the millions over many years caused any significant verifiable damage. How many forum members have actually had an engine damaged by filter material?

You'd think that, arguably some of the best engineering staff of again arguably, one of the oldest and most successful automotive manufactures the world has know, would be at least able to spec the single most commonly replaced maintenance part!"

I'd suggest anybody with questions about suitability of OEM spec filters read the original thread is for no other reason than amusement. The "debate and research" in my opinion are illuminating, maybe more about the debaters and researchers than the actual factual suitability of one filter over another.

agreed.

Personally, I think much of the fear surrounding the issue is a lack of understanding in the forces / flow rates involved with this particular filter design.

However, with modern oils and extended service intervals, there is plenty a good reason to elicit a greater filtration method.

compu_85 · #42 11-13-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

This is what I did

I took a 0.5 Nominal Micron Cotton String Wound Filter and inserted it in a Bosch Oil filter after Dumping out the waste Cotton Filling.

It is in my Car right now.

Tell me more about this. Unlike the 61x engines, nobody makes a good filter for the 60x engines anymore. I'd love to do this next oil change.

-Jason

pawoSD · #43 11-13-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compu_85

Tell me more about this. Unlike the 61x engines, nobody makes a good filter for the 60x engines anymore. I'd love to do this next oil change.

-Jason

The filters from the dealer are decent, but quite expensive.

I had an experience with the cotton waste/husks falling out of a Hengst filter onto my work bench while prepping it. So I went anti-cotton waste. I only use the FRAM filters because they have clean string inside, that can't really fall out.

The bosch cotton waste filters work ok too....they have a high quality screen mesh inside to lock the cotton waste in securely.

Graplr · #44 11-13-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I am not seeing the argument here. Better filtration clearly gives better protection and helps things to last longer unless it becomes so restrictive as to mess with performance.

There is obviously truth to that. But what kind of degradation of the engine, how much better filtration and how much longer are we talking about by using OEM filters? As far as I know no one has ever done a scientific study to see if there is any difference in longevity. IMO, it would be an insignificant difference, if any.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I want better Filtration and I have/am taking steps to that.

I also have also replaced my Secondary Fuel Filter with a 2 absolute Micron CAT Fuel Filter and plan to replace the Plastic Primary Filter with a VW Rabbit 10 Nominal Micron spin-on Filter that has a drain. I already have the parts I just have other issues to deal with.

If it seems like bragging so what. I read about peoples Intercoolers, Modified M Pumps and even replacing the Solid Brake Rotors with vented ones; or how about the folks that installed different Rims on their car.

At this time those thing do not interest me; there are things I would like to remain stock also.
If someone only wants to use Stock Oil Filters I am OK with that.

This forum itself is a little more extreme than the other forums I have visited.

I have no problem with people doing mods to their cars. I think what you're doing is cool...overkill...but cool. I love tinkering around and being a DIYer but to me creating my own oil filter that I change every ~4k that looks like I could leave it in for multiple times as long since it is showing no signs of degradation is not needed. I'll stick with OEM filters changed out at regular intervals along with putting fresh oil in. I did enjoy reading and looking at your pictures of you filter.

Oldwolf · #45 11-13-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compress ignite

speedybenz got me started on this quest,by displaying K+P's product in another post.

http://www.kandpengineering.com/filters.shtml

I talked to them Today about a 601 180 01 09 version of the Filter that they've
made up for the AMG canister.
'Would fit Diesels from '82 to '95.
They're gonna obtain an O.E. filter from MB for comparison.

Advantages would be: An 8 Micron absolute filtration WASHABLE element.
I've my fingers crossed!

Below is the Absolute 8 Micronic Stain-Less Steel Mesh filter element they make for the AMGs.

If they have one to fit a 602.962 I'd get it. Payback would be less that 10 oil changes.