Winter Project - 300TD Auto to Manual Conversion Begun! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

charmalu · #16 11-22-2009, 11:59 PM

when I ordered my clutch parts from Phill. the catalog listed early and later chassis #. there is a different throw out bearing and master cylinder for each one. maybe the slave too.

I installed the all aluminium box out of an 82 240 which is the later style.

I also have a slope back iron box, don`t remember the yr I got it out of, but it was an old black rat infested 240. yuk. someone started to pull the trans, it was just in there by 2 bolts, and it just sort of followed me home.

It`s always good to pull the vin plate for id later on down the road. I did on the 82, then just make a notation on the back side. It helped when I ordered the clutch line for the slave. gave the dealer the vin#.

Charlie

hey_allen · #17 11-23-2009, 12:07 AM

If I'd gotten it out of a car, I would definitely have noted the numbers, but it was sitting on the ground in the guy's driveway with a tarp over it.

The price was right, but it promptly turned into a mystery as I tried to get the service parts for it.

veggie190 · #18 11-24-2009, 06:14 PM

Got the Transmission out! I swear those 10mm starter allen bolts were welded in!

That is great flywheel information. I left it on for now until I mark it and figure out if it was neutral balanced.

Thanks for info/link on cutting springs as well. Your 300D sure looks nice! My wagon lived most of it's life in Los Angeles... California sure is nicer to cars than Minnesota.

If I use the drive shaft front section from a manual 300td wagon can I use the back section of the drive shaft from the original automatic? Or do I use the rear from the 240D I have...

Next up, pulling the trans on the 82 240D parts car and scoping out which transmission to use.

charmalu · #19 11-24-2009, 10:40 PM

Iam sure the 123`s use the same length rear section. Iam not sure with the w123 300CD/280CE, that rear section may be different.

the 300TD and 240D/300D rear section is the same length. the diameters will be larger on some. I have a 240D the one off my 85 300D, and one I installed off a 80 300D. that last one has a larger diameter than the other 2. the 240 being the smaller diameter.

I used the rear driveline from the 80 300D, it only had 160,000k miles on it compared to my 34+,xxxk miles. that was like new compared to my high milage one.

This is a good time to replace the center bearing now you have it apart.

when I had the front section from the 240 shortened, the shop charged $150.00. they also will replace the MB U-Joint with a Nissan sealed none greaseable joint. some driveline shops replace them with one with a zirk fitting. if I have it done, I`ll go with the Nissan joint. so far for now, it is running smooth as can be.

when you finally get the transmission installed and things all connected back up, you will have to eliminate some of the throttle linkage. like the Bowden cable and a few things, don`t remember all.

I just replaced the plate and two rods on the valve cover with one off a 78 W116 300SD. I drove it today for the first time, and wow what a difference. the peddle is smoother to push down, and the jerkyness and driveline vibe`s etc are mostly gone.

one of the two rods has a threaded section, and sort of a slip joint, think that is what really smoothed it out mostly.

www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=266013

Charlie

t walgamuth · #20 11-25-2009, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hey_allen

Talking about the flywheels, on the one I got in a 'kit' for a conversion it's decidedly not neutrally balanced.

That being said, I'm planning on going neutral balance on it, as I can't see any balance weights on my my flex plate or the torque converter other than the small adjustment tab welded on, which appears to just be enough to put it to neutral.

Regarding the replacement parts for the clutch and pressure plate, does anyone have a good reference for the parts for the older iron case transmissions?
The trans I got doesn't match up to the descriptions that I'm seeing on the parts applicability lists. For one, my shift levers don't all go up or down, but rather the middle one is down, while the forward and rear are up. (or vise-versa, I can't remember as it's been a couple of months on the back burner...)

I know of no way to tell by looking at the automatic flywheel visually to tell if it is neutral or not. I would only trust having it spun and checked by someone who can balance it.

hey_allen · #21 11-26-2009, 12:07 AM

I wouldn't claim to be able to say just how it is balanced, but the pattern of lightening holes grouped as they are can't allow it to be neutral in the case of the wheel that flywheel that I have.

If you divided the wheel into three 120* sections, two have a pattern of five roughly half inch diameter holes machined deeply into the rim, while the third arc segment has no lightening holes at all.

If it were like the harmonic balancer with it's one or two holes, both much smaller and shallower than these, I'd consider them to be balance adjustments, but these are a good bit larger than any adjustment removals I've seen, even in the larger engines I've seen apart.

That being said, it's going to be spun and balanced long before it makes it into the car, as will the drive line after modification.

Edit:
All this is talking about the manual flywheel.

The automatic only has a flex disc, a spindly structure of sheet metal forming a three point support, and bolted onto a toothed ring around the perimeter. I'm not sure just how that could be a balance mass in any way shape or form, but I'll look again when I get the donor car's transmission off.

veggie190 · #22 11-30-2009, 10:40 PM

Well I pulled the transmission on my 82 240D parts car, I think i'll be going with the 79 trans I have. They are identical, but the 79 looks in better shape. The 82 was filled with crud inside! The mileage on them are nearly identical.

Your linkage swap looks great Charlie. That makes sense that you can eliminate any slop with the adjustable linkage. Cleans up nice too... I'll have to hunt around for a set.

Now with auto removed and a manual removal under my belt, I have a question about the swap. There's two wiring hookups on the auto that weren't on the manual (see attached pic). What happens to them when I put the manual in?

Time to start ordering parts...

charmalu · #23 12-01-2009, 12:53 AM

Did those wires go to your Nutral safety Switch? If so two are for the backup lights. the other two which are purple? should be for the start position.

I just pulled the NSS plug and cable into the cabin through that gromett. I later washed up the gromet to degrease it, and filled the hole with RTV to keep out water and cold air.

I was just looking through my notes when I did this swap. the wire from the back up switch on the shifter, has a grey wire with yellow stripe, and a black with yellow-red stripe.

Looking at the back of the plug with the cover off, grey/yel strip, bottom right.
blk/yel stripe bottom left.
the two top pins should have a jumper across the pins. this just connects the two purple wires together.

the plug on the 300TD which is on the drivers side at the top of the carpet for the console cover. sort of above your right knee. mounted to a bracket.

bottom left pin, grey/yellow stripe.
bottom right pin, black/yellow-red stripe

top right pin, purple/white stripe
top left pin, purple (with a small purple wire) not sure what I ment by that when I scribbled that down

once you get in there it will make sense, (I hope)

.

when I cut the shift rods, I used a 10mm 1.50 Die to rethread them. the rods miked out to 9.60mm. so the threads won`t be as deep or raised as original. but so far hasn`t caused me any problems.
I cut 4 1/2 inches off 2 of the rods and 3 3/4 off the other one. But measure yours just to be sure.

Charlie

charmalu · #24 12-01-2009, 01:07 AM

Linkage? I had to go back and see what you were talking about. I forgot I linked that.

It`s like night and day from what it was.

After I did the 4-spd swap, I was getting this vibration. above 2100rpm it would sort of smooth out. below that I would get it. and slowing down to an intersection light, it would buck like lugging the engine. this would be like 12 to 1500rpm.

I read about lowering the trans mount, dropping the center support some. so I was up and down with spaces, changed the trans rubber mount from a 300D turbo, the wider one, to an early 300d with the metal brace on it, and a 240D mount.

It wasn`t until I changed that linkage, everything seemed to smooth out. now I can roll up to a red light in 3rd, and the rpm`s get down to 700, with out any bucking and vibrating. such a simple thing.

Charlie

veggie190 · #25 12-01-2009, 12:13 PM

Fantastic, yes that was the NSS. Sounds fairly straight forward to me, thanks to you I should be able to figure this out when I get there.

That is quite incredible how the linkage smoothed things out. This is definitely on my to do list...

The holidays are looking like they are going to slow my progress, but I'm thinking this will be completed well before winter is over in MN.

chrismak · #26 12-04-2009, 11:12 PM

Hey guys,

great thread. Just a quick thought and forgive me if this has been hashed before. I have an 84 ,123 and was also thinking of doing the manual transplant. Then I got to thinking , were some of these 123's made with a 5 speed in Europe.
I tried searching on E-bay German version and didn't have much luck, but again my German is limited.
Just thought a 5 speed would be great even if it had to be shipped from europe.

Chris

charmalu · #27 12-05-2009, 12:56 AM

you are right, some of the 123 had a 5-spd in europe, some came over here as grey Mkt cars. very rare over here, but they are around.

Get in line, every one is looking for a 5-spd and the 617 flywheel. the needle in the hay stack.

If you have the money for the transmission and the shipping from germny, it`s doable. might be pricy though.
If you see the word Getrag, that is what they call them, or the co. that mfg them.

Do some searching, this has been discussed before.

Did you read the link in post# 10? the guy is converting a 190 5-spd.

this link will give you some transmission discriptions, and what to look for.

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/manual-transmission-information-t-421.html

Charlie

chrismak · #28 12-06-2009, 05:31 PM

Hey Charlie,

thanks for reply and key word "Getrag" Look what I found on German E-bay.

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270497311399&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:de#ht_915wt_1167

Now at least I know they are out there. Don't think its worth the 550 Euro he is asking plus shipping stateside. ### Merecedes 123 Diesel 5-GANG GETRIEBE ### But for someone with extra moolah and a strong desire for the ultimate mating, its an option. I will keep searching. Thanks again for link to other project.
Chris

veggie190 · #29 12-07-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrismak

Hey guys,

great thread. Just a quick thought and forgive me if this has been hashed before. I have an 84 ,123 and was also thinking of doing the manual transplant. Then I got to thinking , were some of these 123's made with a 5 speed in Europe.
I tried searching on E-bay German version and didn't have much luck, but again my German is limited.
Just thought a 5 speed would be great even if it had to be shipped from europe.

Chris

I'm with you, definitely would love the 5-speed but too hard to come by here. 550 Euro from Germany, well I can't afford that just now but that is pretty cool they are that easy to source from over there.

A friend sent me this link of pulling a flywheel off a 240D, pretty cool project he's doing. Putting a 240D engine/transmission into a Chevy S10-

Still haven't gotten the flywheel off the wagon to get match balanced yet...I'll do that soon. Then I'll get to the fun stuff of putting the manual in!

charmalu · #30 12-07-2009, 11:28 PM

Here are the ebay pic

There now you can put this on your wish list.

Charlie