Newbie to diesels question 1986 190d

[mmason7]

Hi all,
I've got a good neighbor (& friend), who has been vacillating on whether he's going to sell his 1986 190d 2.5 with a 5-speed manual transmission and a truckload of miles -- 285,000. I think he's going to sell it, and has offered it to me. I'm probably going to buy, but am looking for some pre-buy advice.
First, is this a good (not trouble-prone) engine/transmission combination? It must be, as the car seems to run well with nearly 300,000 miles... Is there anything I should out for specifically upon inspection? What would be a fair "good neighbor" price?
Secondly, can someone explain the draw of these diesels? I'm almost assuredly going to buy the car, so maybe I'll figure it out as I drive, but right now the benefits elude me. At first, I thought these cars would be extremely long-lived, which they are (obviously), but they also seem to require a lot of maintenance to get there. My gas Volvo 740 (with an equal level of maintenance) will likely reach 400,000; it already has 292,000 and runs great. Then I thought they'd be incredibly fuel efficient, which they are as well, but with the price of diesel being higher than gas, that benefit is mitigated to a large extent. Finally, diesels are not quicker or more powerful. They might be easier to work on, but my Volvo is pretty easy and straight-forward already. then you've got the added "difficulties" of cold starts, finding diesel, etc.
I'm not trying to alter anyone's opinion of diesels. I'm sincerely wondering what the draw is! Any insight would be appreciated to clarify it in my own mind's eye.
Warmest regards,
Matt

[Aquaticedge]

290 on a diesel is not bad. Cold start problems are likely glow plugs, check the compression however. 190D's wont blow the door off any other car but they'll get you where you want to go. I'd say go for it

[vstech]

Welcome to the forum!

the biggest draw anyone looking to get into a mercedes vehicle is THIS FORUM!

no matter what the problem is, within minutes nearly any time of day, you will likely get an immediate correct and easy to follow answer to the problem.

bar none, this forum is the finest data bank on any vehicle problem on earth!

the 190 is a compact vehicle and in 86 the 2.5l 5cyl motor was not turbocharged I think. should be quite efficient on fuel, and a very reliable vehicle to drive.
only real issues with the vehicle occur when maintenance is not followed.

there are no distributer caps to change, no spark plugs or wires, no rotor button.
glow plugs do fail and need replacing on occasion, but many have lasted 200+thousand miles without fail.
electricity is not needed to keep the car running, and with a dead battery and dead alternator, the car will run without incident. it can even be started without power, if there is a long hill, especially in the 5 speed variant. the automatics can also be started this way, but require a much longer hill, or a tow to get it going.
keep the oil serviced, the coolant flushed and fresh, and the brakes maintained, and likely you will not have issues with the car.

check out the alternative fuels forum above, and see what the car is capable of with free or low priced renewable fuels!

[babymog]

The 190 (W201) is a cool little car, very fun to drive. It is definately the body for a 5-speed IMO.

With the 2.5 non-turbo it isn't fast, but can get out of its own way and is fun to drive. On top of that is the ability to get high-30s MPGs, even into the low 40s if you baby it and it is in good tune. Diesel is just something that some of us get excited about, the simplicity of the engine and driveline, alternate fuels if you so desire (do lots of research on this if you choose to go this route, lots of wrong ways to do it), and long life. The engine will likely out-live the car.

There is a small pump called an "auxiliary pump" or "aux pump", you will want to be sure that it is not seized, it will destroy the climate-control controller. Rust in the rockers is common on those cars, but they are mostly a good economical car that is dependable, have fun.

[ds190]

The 601 and 602 engines can blow the head gasket at cylinder 1, dumping oil from the timing chain area into that cylinder, blowing a boat load of blue smoke out the exhaust. Not often, but still suspect. After the engine is at operating temp, it shouldn't blow much blue smoke (black somewhat ok- that's diesel soot).

Part of the Mercedes Benz “ride” comes from rubber bushings and flex disks used to completely isolate the body from the engine, drive train, suspension, and exhaust. All rubber breaks down over time, so at some point, you may have to replace some of it. Your Volvo does not have that design, and so it’s lower maintenance but truck like ride, imho.

Having owned 2 190 diesels with over 200K on each, door check stops will stiffen and break, window regulators will break, the ignition switch tumbler may need to be replaced, the automatic climate control is maddenly complex and likely the refrigerant will need to be recharged, the wiper mechanism grease can stiffen or the plastic gear can break which means the wiper arm won’t extend to fully wipe the windshield, the blower motor may fail, the contacts in the electric window switch can arch and the carbon blocks current (so the switch does not work but can be taken apart and cleaned), the electric seat switch same issue, and the sun roof cable grease and rail grease needs to be replaced as it stiffens. As mentioned, most of the 190s have rust around the jack points in the rocker panels.

Baby mog (“aux pump”) is referring to the aspirator blower (or ventilation blower) that lives in the dash board by the right console vent hose. It draws cabin air over the temp sensor by the front overhead light as part of the ACC system. When it fails, the temp does not automatically adjust, but instead function full cold or full hot. Failure can fry the push-button climate control unit.

Having driven diesels all my life, it is a true bummer that the fuel costs the same as/more than premium gas. Back before China woke up, diesel cost the same as/ less than regular gas, which meant the better fuel mileage (and more durable engine and lower maintenance costs) of the diesel engine made it significantly more economical than gasoline. Today, well maybe not so much. You just have to believe!!

[vstech]

Originally Posted by ds190

Baby mog (“aux pump”) is referring to the aspirator blower (or ventilation blower) that lives in the dash board by the right console vent hose. It draws cabin air over the temp sensor by the front overhead light as part of the ACC system. When it fails, the temp does not automatically adjust, but instead function full cold or full hot. Failure can fry the push-button climate control unit.

NO.
what babymog is describing is an electric water pump that is in the heater plumbing that when siezed will blow the circuit in the climate control push button unit. it is capable of causing a fire that can destroy the car!!!

[Tpawlik]

I have owned three diesel powered cars. Two MB's and a Jetta TDI. I cannot difinitively explain the lure of diesel engines. I drove them mostly for the economy. Maybe it's just because they are different. But, I am a sucker for MB's. They drive better/nicer than any other brand of car in my opinion.
Since you have "paid" to put so many miles on your Volvo, the cost of maintainence on the 190 should be very similar.
What Vstech said is true, this is "the" site for info on MB diesels.

[mmason7]

This is the original poster. Just wanted to say thanks for the wide range of responses. As you may have guessed, it's just a waiting game in terms of the original owner. I'm most likely going to buy the car unless something crazy happens. ... and I'll most likely be a regular on the group.

One of the biggest appeals is that the Mercedes is a 5-speed. I've only owned one non-stick car (+ my wife's current Subaru), and it's practically mandatory for me. Even the 1990 Volvo 740 is a true 5-speed manual.

I live in Seattle, so rust generally is not a problem.

Even though I've said my thanks, I'd still welcome add'l opinions. Please chime in!
Matt

[babymog]

I miss the old Volvo 4-speed + overdrive units from the '80s. Just old school, like the GLTs.

[thayer]

In my personal case, there is something romantic about a diesel. I think it has something to do with the idea that if this thing can propel me and mine down the highway at 100mph I ought to be able to hear it.


You need to have the desire to learn and do. If you want a reliable car without worrying about maintenance, get a hondayota. If you want a hobby that will bring you joy...buy the 190d. they are not as reliable as my honda...but they drive better and are much more fun to deal with specifically because of this forum.

I recently purchased a gas benz and this forum has been just as helpful as with my old diesel. a 190d would be a great little runabout. I think you'd enjoy it...just don't plan on taking any trips in it, unless the seats are in tip top condition.

you can often get parts for cheap at the local pull and pick a part, check your localities for available yards; the 190d will be a rarity there...although the 190e you will run into more. Other parts you will need to purchase new or rebuilt. There is significant cost involved in that...be prepared. Always check the PNP first. that was a big mistake I made in the beginning. Ask, ask, and ask. other forums I have been on assault people for asking questions that have already been answered....but here, you just tend to get the answer (or some variation) and then a link to the last thread that dealt with it. search is your friend, but nobody here is going to give you a hard time about it...its like they understand that time is of value and not everyone is adept at computer lingo to search as efficiently as post.

This forum is unlimited, free, friendly tech support. Does ANYTHING you buy new offer you that? Garmin and dell used to...not so much anymore.


Buy ALL your new or reman parts here from fastlane or allpartsexpress. And if they don't have it....email them...they will get it. That is why the forum exists. Advertising space and parts purchases make this place possible.

Nicest people ever.

[geoffreymbrown]

I have the W124 version of this car -- 250D NA diesel, 5-speed. While not quick, it'll cruise quite nicely at 75 and isn't a dog in traffic. Not sure about the fuel economy differences. I get 30mpg on the highway and 24 around town (but then my normal drives are 1-2 miles). I have the feeling this is on the low side, but I'm not sure what (other than habits) is necessary to get better economy.

I sold my 1998 subaru wagon shortly after I bought the 250D -- I hated driving that
car, but then I'm 6'4". The Mercedes is waaay more comfortable and handles quite
well.

Geoffrey