reamed glow plugs, now won't start in warm weather! - Page 9 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

layback40 · #**121** 01-03-2010, 08:31 AM

Bio,
You deserve 110% for your perseverance !!!
Its a pity there isnt some one near you who is experienced with tow starting. I believe that once your motor has been started and run for a while, it will settle down and start easier. Old diesels can be left for years and once they are forced to start all is good. My biggest concern is that you will ware the starter out trying!!

Biotour · #**122** 01-04-2010, 03:42 PM

finally pulled manifolds last night.. man that intake has a lot of junk in it. whats the best way to clean it? thinking a good soak in a 5 gal bucket of biodiesel. that won't harm the aluminum like simple green or the purple stuff, will it?

i'm going to try squirting oil in the intake ports. the roads are still too icy to pull my car off the street or to attempt a tow start, so i'm doing what i can right now... i still cant plug it in to use the block heater. ive definitely been entertaining the idea of a new engine, especially with the blowby this thing has.. but for now this is much more affordable. and it's not an emergency to get it fixed, i mean, ive got a bike...

do i need to reinstall the exhaust manifold or can i just run the engine with both manifolds off?

if i can get it started after putting in the oil, should i attach the intake manifold and then spray water into it? or just leave the manifold off and spray into the individual cylinders? and how much water will i need to spray in to actually clean them? i thought that water injection was something that worked over time to eventually steam clean the engine; not something that i could accomplish with just a few minutes of spraying.

Biotour · #**123** 01-04-2010, 04:20 PM

well that did it, i squirted about a tablespoon of oil in the cylinders, rotated the engine by hand a few revolutions, squirted another tablespoon, glowed, and it FINALLYYY started! but man it looks like exxon valdez in my engine compartment now as i forgot to catch the oil from the turbo pipe.

so what now? id like to steam clean those cylinders, whats the best way to go about it?

any other things i should do while the manifolds are off? the turbo looks pretty oily.. maybe time for new seals? can i soak the whole turbo/exhaust manifold in some degreaser or biodiesel to clean it up a bit, or should i just get the rebuild kit? how hard is it to replace the seals?

JimSmith · #**124** 01-04-2010, 04:30 PM

Congratulations!

If a lot of oil is leaking out of your turbo, you have a seal issue.

Well, to clean the intake manifold I take mine to the local car wash with the high pressure wands and just blast the thing out. Soaking with solvent makes more mess and doesn't do much but make the stuff inside kind of soft and gooier. That stuff is likely one of your problems. You seem to have a leaky seal on the turbo, and the soot from the EGR valve opening is being caught up by the oil leaking past your turbo bearing seal, and likely your blow-by. So, your intake stroke is working extra hard sucking the air past the long and narrow passages, making the starting operation extra tough. Once the turbo is spooled up with the engine operating you likely are generating some backpressure that is contributing to your blow-by.

Good luck, Jim

spock505 · #**125** 01-04-2010, 04:33 PM

Huuurrrrrahhh!!

Ok, have a gen up on the water misting link I sent, heres the end result of another chap who followed Dave Jones info;

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=15095

I would do say 10/20 minutes using a hand spray going from left to right across the inlet ports - the best cleaning takes place under load so then hook up a proper jobbie ready for a good hard run, find some hills.

Not sure about your engine but if it's anything like ours then choked with crud from EGR,

Yup, use biodiesel soaked over night - have a search on EGR blanking plates, you may as well do that whilst in bits.

layback40 · #**126** 01-04-2010, 07:02 PM

When I was young & silly, we used to just get a tin can and cut out a blank the shape of the gasket without the hole in the middle. on the old gassers we were playing with we could just put it under the EGR valve, it still worked, just didnt do anything. That way if we were stopped, it looked all stock standard.

Biotour · #**127** 01-11-2010, 02:11 PM

jim- i made a video of my turbo and you can see all the dirt thats accumulated on it. i dont know if its leaking but i was reading that if it leaks, its typically internal and will just cause you to burn oil. i dont think thats the case as i don't recall there being much smoke when i drove. and my oil consumption is maybe a quart every 1000 miles. anyways, i power washed everything while the manifolds were off, so now i'll be able to see exactly what (if anything) is leaking.

the video shows me moving the turbo spindle, it has a bit of side to side play but no fore and aft play. i figured this is normal as the oil needs to lubricate it; the play on my friend's 82 300sd is less than the play in this one however.

is there a rebuild kit i should consider?

i'd like to put the manifolds back on today. i have a new gasket and was just curious if anyone knew the torque specs for the 7 bolts?

anyway here's the video. enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91hU5h-cuZc

ps. an aluminum can works great as an egr gasket! ive been using that for several months. but my intake still had a good amount of crud in it, from it probably never being cleaned before. not horribly clogged but maybe 5mm of carbon film, nasty stuff.

Olivier · #**128** 01-11-2010, 02:42 PM

Pfff... This is a lot of play there. As the comment you need some bearings there...

whunter · #**129** 01-11-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biotour

jim- i made a video of my turbo and you can see all the dirt thats accumulated on it. i dont know if its leaking but i was reading that if it leaks, its typically internal and will just cause you to burn oil. i dont think thats the case as i don't recall there being much smoke when i drove. and my oil consumption is maybe a quart every 1000 miles. anyways, i power washed everything while the manifolds were off, so now i'll be able to see exactly what (if anything) is leaking.

the video shows me moving the turbo spindle, it has a bit of side to side play but no fore and aft play. i figured this is normal as the oil needs to lubricate it; the play on my friend's 82 300sd is less than the play in this one however.

is there a rebuild kit i should consider?

i'd like to put the manifolds back on today. i have a new gasket and was just curious if anyone knew the torque specs for the 7 bolts?

anyway here's the video. enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91hU5h-cuZc

ps. an aluminum can works great as an egr gasket! ive been using that for several months. but my intake still had a good amount of crud in it, from it probably never being cleaned before. not horribly clogged but maybe 5mm of carbon film, nasty stuff.

The turbo bearings are bad...

You need a good used or to rebuild yours.

Yak · #**130** 01-11-2010, 06:43 PM

Is it really sticking/jamming right around the 25 sec mark in the video? I'm thinking you're on the edge of catastrophic, shrapnel in the intake, bad bearings; not just loose bearings or oil seals.

Disclaimer: I'm not a turbo mechanic, so take my alarmist speculation with a grain of salt.

JimSmith · #**131** 01-11-2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biotour

jim- i made a video of my turbo and you can see all the dirt thats accumulated on it. i dont know if its leaking but i was reading that if it leaks, its typically internal and will just cause you to burn oil. i dont think thats the case as i don't recall there being much smoke when i drove. and my oil consumption is maybe a quart every 1000 miles. anyways, i power washed everything while the manifolds were off, so now i'll be able to see exactly what (if anything) is leaking.

the video shows me moving the turbo spindle, it has a bit of side to side play but no fore and aft play. i figured this is normal as the oil needs to lubricate it; the play on my friend's 82 300sd is less than the play in this one however.

is there a rebuild kit i should consider?

i'd like to put the manifolds back on today. i have a new gasket and was just curious if anyone knew the torque specs for the 7 bolts?

anyway here's the video. enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91hU5h-cuZc

ps. an aluminum can works great as an egr gasket! ive been using that for several months. but my intake still had a good amount of crud in it, from it probably never being cleaned before. not horribly clogged but maybe 5mm of carbon film, nasty stuff.

That thing is shot. You need to rebuild that one or buy a rebuilt one to replace it before you invest time reassembling. I would not install that one and run it at all, but I would be inclined to want to take it apart and check what's going on in there. A bearing should not allow anywhere near that kind of motion and once they wear like that the rate of metal degradation inside the machine becomes exponential. As previously noted you could be looking at ingesting metal shavings or chunks or worse when the clearances get big enough to have the rotating part touch the stationary part.

Jim

layback40 · #**132** 01-13-2010, 07:40 AM

Jim is right, i have seen a turbo like that previously. The owner said "she will be right" 2 hours later inlet fan disintegrated, went through motor. New head, pistons rods & liners needed. Best get a rebuilt change-over. With that much slop, you dont know how much damage has already been done to the turbo. I think you are lucky to have caught it like you have.

Biotour · #**133** 01-15-2010, 02:44 AM

i picked up a junkyard turbo the other day, it was the only one i could find out of 3 junkyards that was still ON the engine! i think this one's shot as well. its got the same radial motion, although not quite as bad; it does move laterally however and my old one did not. in addition, this turbo sports a chipped compressor wheel.

anyways, i'm thinking ill take back the junkyard one and either do a better job inspecting before pulling another one from a better? yard, (it was the only one in the yard and 617s are really hard to find around here) or attempt a rebuild on mine.

ive already taken it apart, however i marked the compressor wheel and shaft alignment, as well as the intake and exhaust covers. should i just order the $59 rebuild kit from these guys? http://www.gpopshop.com/garrettt3kits.html

anyone have experience with these kits? i read this article that really scared me:

http://reviews.ebay.com/The-quot-DIY-turbo-rebuild-kit-quot-myth_W0QQugidZ10000000002567810

and this is causing me to lean towards doing a better job hunting down another used one and just swapping the whole thing. would this be a good time to upgrade to one of the newer triple K versions? will they have the same efficiency with highway driving, which this car is mainly used for? ive heard they spool up faster but dont know how that affects cruising. i could always use more low end power too, this car is a dog until about 15-20 mph.

i'd like to keep this as low budget as possible but don't want to sacrifice the engine! i can't afford a new drop in $350 cartridge.

whunter · #**134** 01-15-2010, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biotour

i picked up a junkyard turbo the other day, it was the only one i could find out of 3 junkyards that was still ON the engine! i think this one's shot as well. its got the same radial motion, although not quite as bad; it does move laterally however and my old one did not. in addition, this turbo sports a chipped compressor wheel.

anyways, I'm thinking ill take back the junkyard one and either do a better job inspecting before pulling another one from a better? yard, (it was the only one in the yard and 617s are really hard to find around here) or attempt a rebuild on mine.

Ive already taken it apart, however i marked the compressor wheel and shaft alignment, as well as the intake and exhaust covers. should i just order the $59 rebuild kit from these guys? http://www.gpopshop.com/garrettt3kits.html

anyone have experience with these kits? i read this article that really scared me:

http://reviews.ebay.com/The-quot-DIY-turbo-rebuild-kit-quot-myth_W0QQugidZ10000000002567810

and this is causing me to lean toward doing a better job hunting down another used one and just swapping the whole thing. would this be a good time to upgrade to one of the newer triple K versions? will they have the same efficiency with highway driving, which this car is mainly used for? Ive heard they spool up faster but don't know how that affects cruising. i could always use more low end power too, this car is a dog until about 15-20 mph.

I'd like to keep this as low budget as possible but don't want to sacrifice the engine! i can't afford a new drop in $350 cartridge.

The Garrett and KKK are interchangeable, no detectable difference to the average driver.
Replacing the turbo should fix your power issue.

Exhaust leak between engine and Turbo
Exhaust leak between engine and Turbo OM617

Turbo Cartridge Replacement
Turbo Cartridge Replacement

Turbo Rebuild
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/17299-turbo-rebuild-post809807.html

Rebuilding Turbo
Rebuilding Turbo

Need help: Garrett turbo rebuild on OM617 1982 300SD
Need help: Garrett turbo rebuild on OM617 1982 300SD

Turbocharger Wastegate Valve Spring Tension Adjustment for 617 Engines
http://diymbrepair.com/easley/wgate.htm

Adjusting the Turbo Wastegate
http://www.serenitysys.com/MB/Service_Info/Turbo_Tweak/tweaking_the_mercedes_617_turbo_.htm

Turbocharger Wastegate Adjustment:
Turbocharger Wastegate Adjustment:

Replacing Seals on Turbo Oil Drain Pipes
http://articles.mbz.org/engine/diesel/seals/

W126 OM617 1985 300SD turbo drain tube gasket & seals
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/113087-w126-om617-1985-300sd-turbo-drain-tube-gasket-seals-post799062.html

Biotour · #**135** 05-12-2010, 11:20 PM

ended up finding a used turbo in good condition, huge difference! after getting this no start issue fixed i drove from denver to san francisco, then to los angeles and back twice, then out to dallas, on vegetable oil most of the way. no problems what-so-ever. i left dallas yesterday to head back to california, and decided to stop in denver on the way back. well now that im back in colorado my car isnt starting, again!! i hate this state. i checked my glow plugs and found two that were bad, replaced those, let it glow twice till it clicked off, and it just cranks but nothing. plugged in my block heater i had installed the last time i was out here.. i never actually had a need to use it until today. well it worked for about 20 minutes and now its dead. its the kat's lower radiator hose type and there is plenty of coolant in the engine.. so i dont think i burned it out, did i?

Ive been driving this thing many miles for the past few months every day and not one problem until now. is the altitude somehow messing with my ip and not delivering enough fuel? i know this isnt an issue of cold veg oil clogging my engine, because i ran out of oil on the drive from dallas to here so i switched to diesel and had been running that for the last 50 miles or so. no air in the hard lines.. cracked them at the injectors and cranked to make sure fuel was coming out.. it was about 32 deg. F outside when i tried starting it yesterday, and its been pretty cold all day today too. im thinking this car just really hates cold weather..

one more thing of note is when i pulled the 2 dead glow plugs, the tips looked a bit corroded. never seen any that looked quite like this before.. see the pic below