Advanced Auto Ball Joint Press Tool
 

Yes, I know, another ball joint thread, but I can't seem to find out how to use the Advanced Auto Ball Joint tool. The knuckle kind of gets in the way, and I don't know which way to press it out. Press from the bottom or the top?

You cannot "press it out" the ball joint is removed from the spindle with it clamped in a vise and a suitable hammer and drift is used to pound the boll joint out! A suitable hammer is likely a 6 pounder which you will swing like a baseball bat! A suitable drift will likely be a large heavy socket!

I have a socket which has a two foot long wire handle welded to it, put the socket on the bottom of the ball joint holding it there with your left hand and then applying the hammer from overhead with the right hand, repeat as necessary!

Why can't I press it out? And I still don't know which way to force it out.

It comes out from bottom to top. You would do well to follow the good advice in post #2.

Then, when it's time to install the new joint, find someone with the proper MB press and forget the generic press.

Reality! Because the Chinese recycled chevy tool you're trying to use is incapable of exerting enough force to do so! Not to mention that the tool you're attempting to make use of will not allow you to position it to apply any force that could move the ball joint from the spindle. The ball joint needs to be forced from below, upwards and outwards from the cup of the spindle where it resides. There is no way to position the head of the tool so that it makes contact with the spindle as you would apply forcing power to the bottom of the ball joint.

Below is a pic Deliveryvalve sent me showing how he removed his Ball Joint. I added the Yellow Arrow to show the direction it comes out.
He is using a Socket as the Punch to knock out the Joint.

Note that the Steering Knuckle is upside down. The Factory Service Manual shows it upside down but with part of it held in a Vice so that you can Beat the Joint out.

Definitely needs to be hammered out.

The Autozone press will only press the joint in.

Danny

I used a large hydraulic press at work to do this. I was amazed at how much force was needed. Something like 10 -12 tons. If you can't get it out with a hammer let me know. I can bring it to work and get it out for you.

sometimes a little bit of heat helps - be careful, and a bigger hammer!! Be careful not to bend the Knuckle !! I supported the knuckle with a piece of heavy walled steam pipe located so that the crook ball joint slid into it. I had previously tried to use a 15 ton press, waste of time! it was ok for pressing the new joint in.

And only then by pressing on the wrong part of the joint, which all but guarantees that the joint will be at least somewhat deformed in the process.

Sorry but this statement is false.

By what measure did you determine that? Do you have the ability to determine that there has been no deformation to an installed part? (Some deformation occurs every time an interference-fit part is installed.)

Could you provide a picture of the generic press being used in such a way that is applies pressure to the ball joint flange? Every example that I have seen shows the press applying pressure to top of the housing in a way that is guaranteed to deform the part. The deformation may not be easily detected by the average shade tree mechanic, but it occurs nonetheless.

I have personally seen one ball joint that was completely loose (meaning that the ball flopped around in the socket) following installation with a generic press. That may have been an extreme case, but there is no doubt that some deformation occurs in any case.

I edited another pic Deliveryvalve sent me to blow up only the part of his pic I wanted.
Also I do not remember where he got the Press.
The thing is that when you use Generic Tools to do a job you nave to work with more care and have to make a decision if you want to take a chance on the tool or not.
If you see that the Generic Press is not pressing the Ball Joint in straight you have to stop before you cause dmage.

When I did mine I knocked out the old joint the way it shows in the picture posted above but I did my best to suport the steering knuckle so it wouldn't get damaged. To press in the new ball joint I took the knuckle and joint to a local indi shop that had the factory tool and they charged around $25 each but after watching them do it I was glad to pay them.

I did resort to the torch for removal once. burn the center out of it and hit it w/ a hammer. (consider removing the boot first, and cleaning most of the grease out of the joint- it still stinks so bad you dont want to do this enclosed)

I used the cheeepo press w/ lemforders 18 months(35K)ago, and it did the job, but now the last week or so I am hearing what sounds very much like a squeaking BJ. maybe its not a BJ( too cold to bother looking), maybe its a bad part, maybe I did it wrong, maybe the tool shortened the lifespan.

I had an assistant hold the knuckle for me down on the concrete.



That is an Autozone rental press. Not the best fitting equipment. But sufficient at doing the job after removing the ball joint boot. However, I will not recommend this press for anybody who has not used a press before and not have the experience of what they should be doing because you CAN easily deform the joint with this.




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I had to use a combo of the AZ press and a 10 ton press (located at work), since I did not have access to the proper tool. The proper tool was $90 last time I checked. Next time...I will buy the proper tool. IT took all freaking weekend to do the job. If I had the proper tool in the beginning, the hardest part would have been repacking the bearings.

The AZ tool would have been fine if, and its a BIG if, the AZ tool would have fit flush on the outer lip of the ball joint.

I pressed mine in and out by hand using the rental tool from Advanced auto or autozone cant remember. The old ones had been WELDED in.

The ball joint press tool that I have seen is around $350.

The yellow arrow is not neccessary (for me anyway ;) ). It is obvious with the position of the hammer/socket/steering knuckle that the ball joint can only come out in one direction. :D

PS. The assistant holding the socket is very brave (or very foolish) depending how you look at it. :eek:

Ball joint
 

If you try using a torch be careful not to use too much heat because it could weaken the steel around the ball joint. that's what my indie told me. The best way to replace a Benz ball joint is with a checkbook. Good luck.

It's not that bad! The initial hit was where the assistant was helpful and was able to be positioned far enough away where the hammer could not hit him. After you get the joint going down a bit, the socket now had a place so it will not slip off. Then you can use one hand to hold the socket and knuckle while hammering down.

But I can see if being a problem if the joint was rusted in or perhaps welded.

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I determine by the fact that I myself and numerous other people have used the Autozone press without damaging the joint.

You however base your comments on speculation since you yourself have never used the Autozone press. And you base your comments on the one or two individuals who weren't successful in using it. These same people probably would have messed it up with the proper tool anyway.

I have read a lot of your posts and your a great asset to this site but your not always right.
The bottom line is if your going to make a comment base it on facts not speculation.

Danny

The ball joint in your pic must not have rusted in place and didn't require a lot of force. That's probably why it came out without clamping the knuckle in a vise and just resting it on the floor. I watched a shop do mine. They had the knuckle in a big vise on a metal bench (heavy and sturdy). With goggles and leather gloves on, one guy held a cylindrical brass hammer as a punch resting on the ball joint (which puts his hand safely 12" away), the other guy with a 3 ft long handle sledge hammer swung it like splitting wood. Took 3 shots and it came out. That would have been dangerous if not properly set up.

The perks of Californian vehicles.:D



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I agree. The autozone press worked great for me with 10K miles on my ball joints with no issues.

The ball joints holds the weight of the car?

Yeah, I wanted to bring the knuckle to any indy to do removal and and installation, but just about every shop I asked said they'd charge me an hour (80-90) and the one shop that wouldn't charge me the whole seemed so unsure about the process that I don't really feel comfortable going to him (potentially wrong tools, indeterminate charge).

I see why you chose not to go that route. I was lucky because there are a number of MB only shops around that had the tool. You might look in the tool rental section on this site or Performance Products also has the tool for rent. I remember watching the guys at the place that I took the parts and the put the press in a vice and then 2 guys pulled on the LONG breaker bar they used to turn the press screw.

Damn, I can see why people think this is the single hardest job to do on the W123. Anyway, I took my sledge (long handle, maybe 10 lbs?), and a 1/2" diameter pipe and started hitting away. No go, torched where the joint meets the knuckle, tried again, no go. I also drilled a .5 cm hole in the bottom, more out of curiosity than anything else. I think I'm going to take paul up on his offer.

The ball joints on my car came out with a few whacks of a 3 lb sledge and big solid stainless steel scrap rod piece I found in the shop. I used a piece of wood on the concrete floor for knuckle.

The $90 tool that you need to use with a Hydraulic Press is now a $99 tool; in the 1st pic and the other tool in the 2nd pic is over $300.
The $99 tool comes with a big punch to drive out the Ball Joint.

Did you measure the "before" and "after" rotational torque of the joint? If you did not, you probably have no idea whether damage did or did not occur. That would suggest that you are just speculating.

Contrary to your speculation, I have used a generic ball joint press on numerous domestic vehicles for which it is appropriately suited. When I attempted to use one on my W123, it became immediately apparent that it was poorly suited to the task. It doesn't align the joint properly and it is impossible to use the sleeve adapters so that pressure is applied at the flange, as intended.

Sometimes, you don't need to poke a sharp stick in your eye to conclude that it might not be a good idea.

I forgot to add this to my previous Comments.
As far as I know with the exception of Punch to drive out the Ball Joint there is no special tool made for removing the Ball Joint from the Steering Knuckle.

In the first picture, I see some chinese chicken scratch on the paper. Is that a harbor freight tool?

Charlie

It never rains in Bakersfield, there is so much oil there, nothing can rust :D.


Charlie

Alright, I've got the old ball joint out. Braced the long end against the base of a basketball hoop, the steering joint against a spare wheel on the ground, I taped a big socket to the BJ and it came out pretty easily with a few hits with an 8 lb sledge (like I was splitting wood, whoever made that analogy). This was after heating it up and letting it cool three times. Now for the new one, I'm think of using the generic tool and removing the grease boot. Anyone have any good tips?

Good job! I have taken the 2 steering knuckles off from my 240D parts car as spares and will try to get the ball joint off like what you have done. (splitting wood analog was from me). :)

It is made over there some place. However, that is not my picture. It is a picture either from one of the Members who did a write up on it (I think it is part of the DIY) or from one of the eBay Sellers that Sells them.

Another thought on China or other imported tools is that the Tube Ball Joint Installer was a good idea. I have seen some inovative tools from that area of the world; despite the quality issue.

Besides, eBay there is 2 other internet selles. But, the cost more from them.

Unfortunatly look at the choices:
Buy the $99 tube type ball joint installer and you need to have a Hydraulic press or take it someplace and have the Ball Joint pressed in.

Pay the $300+ (or use our too rental program) for the correct tool

Just pay a shop to install the Ball Joints

Atempt to do the job with the Generic Ball Joint Press. The good news here is that places like Auto Zone rent it for free as long as you return it to them. So if it does not work and no damage is done you have only lost some time.

Added: To the best of my knowlege Harbor Freight does not sell the Tube Type Ball Joint Installer.

I'm going to try it with the generic press like deliveryvalve. I don't see why it wouldn't work. I think I might do a little practice with the old ball joint, the new one won't be here til monday anyway. A question on the wheel hub: do I need to replace that seal? I think I do, but just making sure.

Make sure the press is not going to put pressure on the parts towards the middle past the out lip. If it will, then you will then certainly deform the joint and I would suggest finding another solution.


You do not have to replace the seal on the hub if you are not going to re-pack the bearings and they are not harden and cracked. But if you do re-pack them, then most likely you'll need new ones as they can get tweaked and not be reusable when removed.


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Would you mind measuring the before and after rotational torque of the stud and posting the results?

Aw jeez. Bit of noob hear, so would you mind explaining exactly how I would go about measuring said torque?

It's putting pressure on the upper ridge of the lip, it looks like what you did in that picture. It's not on anything that moves.

Use an old fashioned torque wrench with a needle. Same as you would use to check the rotational torque on a pinion before removing the nut.

I watched when the shop installed mine. They used emery cloth on the knuckle ball joint seat to clean off any corrosion. They had a home made press similar to the Mercedes tool and was very careful to turn the screw a few turns, then look to make sure that it is not going in crooked, hammer all around on the outside of the knuckle to relief any stress, turn a few more turns, look, hammer , look hammer till it is fully seated. You may or may not have to remove the ball joint boot depending on the tool you're using so that it's not damaged.

I just used the C clamp with he adapter that had an angle on it. No damage to boots and the first attempt was crooked but I got the rest done without a problem.

Thinking again about this method, with the knuckle not supported in a vise but resting on the ground, I wonder if there is any danger of bending the knuckle at the weakest point (near the UCA where it is thinner)? It is a long and curved piece. If it was straight, I'd have less worry. It is a pretty beefy piece but hit it hard enough without any give from the ball joint, could it bend? And how would you know if it did or did not bend? It would be hard to tell without a jig.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...4&d=1261033622

Yeah, I think he said to watch out for that. I had mine against a plastic tub full of sand, so I just assumed that it'd go through the plastic before it bends. It didn't take that much force.

I posted Deliveryvalves pic in order to show the direction the Ball Joint was supposed to be removed from.
I do not think Deliveryvalve pounded out the Joint like that. I think he was just showing the use of the Socket as a Punch and the type of Hammer that might be needed.
Also if his Car is from CA it is not going to be rusted in like the East Coast Cars; where it snows.

Here is his post # 16 of this thread detailing him doing exactly that!

There might be a reason those wild and crazy MB engineers Hans and Franz decided to do the many things the various ways they have! Perhaps they actually tried the caveman methods and discovered the addition problems that can be created? I mean if they though pounding out the ball joint with the spindle's upper end braced against concrete were the preferred method they might have provided the measuring jig specified in the FSM as part of the standard tool kit!

I'm not here saying that everything the MB engineers have done is perfect, but having more than a passing familiarity with the Teutonic Anal Obsessive Compulsive genetic makeup I’d suspect that there has been an inordinate amount of thought, consideration, and reveiw brought to bear on these sorts of problems particularly with something like the 123 chassis and the 61X engine series.

There are lots of things that can be done in ways that "appear" to achieve equal or even better than results the designers methodology, I would simply argue that with most of these "modifications" of systems or procedure have a long uphill battle over time and real world operating conditions to prove any real advantages and few if any have done so!

Knowing the correct/best ways to accomplish something will often times allow you to achieve a better “hack job” if you more completely understand the wider array of impactful factors when determining what tradeoffs will have to be made under less than perfect circumstances.

Guilty as charged. I did do it the way I said I did. But in my opinion, there is no way my weak arse could of bend this knuckle. The ball joint came out very easily. If there was any issue of pounding out the ball joint. I would of resorted to putting it in a vise or propping it up against somewhere in a way that the knuckle would not get damaged.

In any event, these cast iron pieces are very strong. You'd be surprised how much beating it can take and still keep it's shape.



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