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  #1  
Old 12-27-2009, 07:06 PM
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Need starting help, 83 300TD (CWC compliant)

O.K.
This could get long winded so bear with me.
Just purchased an 83 300td. It has sat for 2 years now. was parked with what was diagnosed as a rod knock. From what the Mech. that parked it 2 years ago told me I am 99% sure it was just a bad/stuck injector. Car ran fine other than that and has 175k with almost complete documentation of regular oil changes from a mercedes dealership. Although the guy I bought it from said he was told the engine was replaced somewhere around 130k for reasons unknown and no documentation of this.

I figured this would be a hook up a can of diesel purge and fire it right up kind of deal but no such luck.

I adjusted all the valves which had almost no clearence. Figured O.K. that must have been it but still no go.
All glow plugs confirmed working with 11.5 volts at the plugs. Have cranked this thing through three rounds of four different fully charged group 49 batteries.

Block heater working and plugged in. I have even resorted to Ether which I have never before needed to do on a diesel.

Yes Glow plugs disconnected and only a short burst at the intake. It will barely catch and run for a second of two but then quits.

No I haven't done a compression check yet or tore down the injectors but I am afraid I might have to resort to that.
It is pumping fuel and no air in lines. I replaced the leaking primer pump with the newer bosch unit. Changed the fuel filter of course and bled it.

Only other thing I can think of is maybe a mouse nest in the exhaust. The air cleaner was fine.

Any more ideas before I really tear into this thing?

I like to exhaust all my options before I start doing any heavy duty dismantling as I have pretty much found the simple things most always take care of the problem but my luck may have run out in this case we'll see.

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1982 240D auto
1978 300CD auto
1985 300D auto
1983 300TD auto
1984 Porsche 944 5 speed
1973 Opel GT 1900 4 speed
1967 Chevy C30 350 Sm420
1973 Mustang Grande Convertible 302 C4
1981 VW Pickup 1.6D Turbo 5 speed
1983 Rabbit 1.6D Factory Turbo 5 speed
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2009, 07:09 PM
79Mercy's Avatar
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I know you said each glow plug was getting power but have you ohm'ed each plug out?
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1985 300TD Turbo Euro-wagon
1979 280CE 225,200 miles
1985 300D Turbo 264,000 miles
1976 240D 190,000 miles
1979 300TD 220,000

GONE but not forgotten
1976 300D 195,300 miles
1983 300D Turbo 175,000 miles

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  #3  
Old 12-27-2009, 07:29 PM
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Yes, check the glowplugs. But if it were me, I'd just pull start it. There are a number of instances on this forum of cars which have been sitting for a while, starting when pull started when they wouldn't fire up with the starter. Typically it was low compression from rings sticking.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2009, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79Mercy View Post
I know you said each glow plug was getting power but have you ohm'ed each plug out?

No, I do the pull and check with direct 12v test. I like to see the tips glow and just go by color to know if they are good or not. All check out and the vast majority of the cranking has been done with them disabled anyway for the ether use.

I haven't seen evidence of any combustion with the regular starting procedure. With ether it will catch briefly. I do see a good bit of puffing and can smell exhaust through the oil cap so I am fearing the worst. I am praying it is is just dry bores and maybe a stuck comp. ring or two. but I have started Very dusty diesels in the past without too much effort aside from ensuring a good supply of fresh fuel and glowplugs/timing in order.

I actually forgot to check timing chain stretch today while doing the valve adjustment.

The cam lobes sure looked like a relatively low mileage well maintained motor. no sludge in head.
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1982 240D auto
1978 300CD auto
1985 300D auto
1983 300TD auto
1984 Porsche 944 5 speed
1973 Opel GT 1900 4 speed
1967 Chevy C30 350 Sm420
1973 Mustang Grande Convertible 302 C4
1981 VW Pickup 1.6D Turbo 5 speed
1983 Rabbit 1.6D Factory Turbo 5 speed
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2009, 07:43 PM
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Check the resistance between end of plug and the block. Not a definitive test but pretty good. Pull the plugs and put 12 volts to them to be certain.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #6  
Old 12-27-2009, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Yes, check the glowplugs. But if it were me, I'd just pull start it. There are a number of instances on this forum of cars which have been sitting for a while, starting when pull started when they wouldn't fire up with the starter. Typically it was low compression from rings sticking.

I have never pull started an auto and have read the manual and seen that it is possible according to Mercedes. I am skeptical however. I would think you would have to get it really moving. I have pop started many standards at a mere crawl I just don't see that happening with an auto. Don't really have the space to get it really up to speed in its current location. Maybe able to try that once I get it home though.
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1982 240D auto
1978 300CD auto
1985 300D auto
1983 300TD auto
1984 Porsche 944 5 speed
1973 Opel GT 1900 4 speed
1967 Chevy C30 350 Sm420
1973 Mustang Grande Convertible 302 C4
1981 VW Pickup 1.6D Turbo 5 speed
1983 Rabbit 1.6D Factory Turbo 5 speed
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  #7  
Old 12-27-2009, 07:46 PM
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Probably need 25-30mph.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2009, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Probably need 25-30mph.
Thats what I figured. I did put 12v to all the plugs. as well. Thanks.
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1982 240D auto
1978 300CD auto
1985 300D auto
1983 300TD auto
1984 Porsche 944 5 speed
1973 Opel GT 1900 4 speed
1967 Chevy C30 350 Sm420
1973 Mustang Grande Convertible 302 C4
1981 VW Pickup 1.6D Turbo 5 speed
1983 Rabbit 1.6D Factory Turbo 5 speed
Plus parts vehicles...
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2009, 08:15 PM
79Mercy's Avatar
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Have you cracked all 5 injector lines and cranked until each is wet?

I would reconnect the GP's glow them for 2 cycles, 40 seconds each, then crank it.
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1985 300TD Turbo Euro-wagon
1979 280CE 225,200 miles
1985 300D Turbo 264,000 miles
1976 240D 190,000 miles
1979 300TD 220,000

GONE but not forgotten
1976 300D 195,300 miles
1983 300D Turbo 175,000 miles

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...e485-1-2-1.jpg
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2009, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79Mercy View Post
Have you cracked all 5 injector lines and cranked until each is wet?

I would reconnect the GP's glow them for 2 cycles, 40 seconds each, then crank it.
O.K 79 Here is the thing. I have managed to get fuel at all but the no. 1 injector fitting. So it seems to me that no. 1 delivery valve may be stuck. I have fuel at all the other 4 injectors though so I thought that would be enough to at least get it going.


Yes? No?

And Thanks, I am well aware of the extended glow time. I have had my Volvo for 12 years now and have always used the extended glow procedure on it in the winter.

(more specifically, I did do a few of the double glow cycles, let glow a third time for about 35 seconds, right before the relay cut out, but no luck with it.)
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1982 240D auto
1978 300CD auto
1985 300D auto
1983 300TD auto
1984 Porsche 944 5 speed
1973 Opel GT 1900 4 speed
1967 Chevy C30 350 Sm420
1973 Mustang Grande Convertible 302 C4
1981 VW Pickup 1.6D Turbo 5 speed
1983 Rabbit 1.6D Factory Turbo 5 speed
Plus parts vehicles...
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  #11  
Old 12-27-2009, 08:57 PM
79Mercy's Avatar
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If you have fuel,air, and heat then it should start. I would do a compression test next.
__________________
1985 300TD Turbo Euro-wagon
1979 280CE 225,200 miles
1985 300D Turbo 264,000 miles
1976 240D 190,000 miles
1979 300TD 220,000

GONE but not forgotten
1976 300D 195,300 miles
1983 300D Turbo 175,000 miles

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...e485-1-2-1.jpg
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2009, 11:29 PM
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It will be low on comp as it has sat for years. If you tow start it and give it a run, many problems will disappear.
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1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2009, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
It will be low on comp as it has sat for years. If you tow start it and give it a run, many problems will disappear.
I think I am going to go the oil in the cylinders route. Normally I would have done that first but the initial info on the car was that it was last ran spring 09 eventually that changed to spring 07 as I asked more questions, and pointed out the 07 inspection sticker on the windshield.

I am also thinking the pull start might be a little hard on the dry cylinders. I guess it's time to pull the injectors and do the marvel mystery oil soak.
__________________
1982 240D auto
1978 300CD auto
1985 300D auto
1983 300TD auto
1984 Porsche 944 5 speed
1973 Opel GT 1900 4 speed
1967 Chevy C30 350 Sm420
1973 Mustang Grande Convertible 302 C4
1981 VW Pickup 1.6D Turbo 5 speed
1983 Rabbit 1.6D Factory Turbo 5 speed
Plus parts vehicles...
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2009, 12:49 AM
Ian White's Avatar
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Location: Spokane, Washington
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Here you go, all the info you'll need..............

617..........WVO engine..........won't start
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1995 E300 Diesel w124 OM606
2007 GMC Sierra Classic 1500 4x4 5.3L

2001 BMW 740i E38 M62 (past)
1981 300SD w126 OM617 (past)
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2009, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIESELVOLVO View Post
I think I am going to go the oil in the cylinders route. Normally I would have done that first but the initial info on the car was that it was last ran spring 09 eventually that changed to spring 07 as I asked more questions, and pointed out the 07 inspection sticker on the windshield.

I am also thinking the pull start might be a little hard on the dry cylinders. I guess it's time to pull the injectors and do the marvel mystery oil soak.
I think that you just need to pull start it. It will only take a couple minutes to do and you may get this thing running again. If you are worried about the dry cylinders then put some oil in each before dragging the car, but I wouldnt be worried about it.

I know that it is wierd pull starting an automatic. I remember pull starting my 1965 190dc when nobody could get it running. It had 7 year old diesel fuel in it and still started up. After pull starting it it would start up with the starter motor.

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