Sounds good to me.
btw Castrol sells a 15/40 also. Nice to have a little more competition for price.

__________________
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D

Had some time on my hands the other day and a spare starter from my junk 617 engine . The PO just replaced the starter before he blew the engine.

I replaced the starter on the 240D with the new starter.
80 degrees out Glow light goes out the engine starts without cranking over twice.
It used to take three extended glows before it even attempted to start and then kill the battery if it didn't start right away.

Tested it this morning low 40's waited on the glow light.
Just as it turned out I turned the key to start.
Again not even 2 cranks and it fired right up.

Wow frustration followed by elation.
Frustrated because for over five years I've been fighting this,
and elated because I think its finally over I can now drive it all year!

Now the embarrassment sets in.

Removing oil cap - lessens the load on the starter with bad blow by.
Plugging in - warm engine lessens the load on the starter.
Multiple glows - again warms the engine and lessens the load.
wont start when oil pressure shows - loads up the starter
( found the bushings worn completely out and armature dragging )

Hind sight: REPLACE THE STARTER

Thanks Guys!

__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!



86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes

Since the advent of the cheap digital tachometer. We should have a chart of normal starters spinning the engine. Rpm of the fixed fans on the 240 and rpm of the power steering pump or whatever on cars with fluid coupled cooling fans.

You just stick a reflective piece of tape on anything that rotates and read it. Accuracy of the frequency account was more than impressive in my testing of the cheap tach.

The oil consumption rate of one quart per 1300 miles approximatly with oil leaks as well was the clue missed here. Thirteen hundred miles per quart is not the best but is far more than many still good still serviceable engines obtain.

I have always figured on a 240d that 900 miles per quart was also not that terrible.I would not want to see much deterioration of oil consumption below that though.

Adding to the problem is the 240d engine spins up very high on the highway compared to the five cylinder 300ds. So it has to be allowed that at higher rpms these four cylinder engine have a greater issue with internal oil loss. All said and done it is good you have gotten bettter cold starting ability now.

The starter rpm comparison charts for these engines are needed by the way. This of course again is just my opinion.

I was searching for a photo tach and your correct most retail for under 150.00 man have they come down.

I also did a search on Mercedes starter rpms .
It brought me right back to this forum

Its got some good info on Amps and Rpm's

Here's the post:
240D vs 300DT starter motors

On the oil issue I had a 2003 Chevy with the 4.8 that would burn
almost 1.5 quarts in 3000 miles.
Brand new truck , the dealer stated this was normal due to looser fitting pistons. ???? ARE YOU KIDDING ME ????
Notice I don't have a 2003 Chevy in my signature

So if it starts runs and doesn't have a monthly payment I consider myself lucky.
If its thirsty and wants a quart a week its the least i can do for it
especially with the miles this thing has on it.

I guess you can call it automatic oil changes. Minus the filter of course.

__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!



86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes

Think around 20.00-25.00 for one laser tach delivered to your door with batteries and zippered case. Memory function included and extremely accurate. On ebay from China. Or if you enjoy paying substantially more source it in north america.

If you ever want me to identify the model drop me a line. Likewise digital calipers for around ten dollars. Great for the average guy. Get your christmas list ready for the better half when she asks what you want other than a hard time. You are automatically by gender entitled to that sometimes.

I know the rotations of the starter are related to the engine rotation. The only true test to me is to know the average turning speed of the engine with the starter.

This is of course testing the starter on the various model diesel engines under true load conditions. We should have a chart of sensible upper and lower rpm values. At certain ambient temperatures. Or with a totally warmed up engine as well perhaps.

Any substandard result will result in testing a few things and cleaning up connections. If that fails dump the starter. Otherwise the efficiency drop is so slow and incidious usually you can miss it very easy. The starter is getting tired.

A better example would be you buy a new vehicle that does not start easily in the cold. How do you know the starter is not truly up to scatch. Reading the rpm of the block should be a good approach and comparing what you get to a chart. Sure it could be a battery, cables or whatever but at last you are certain that a percentage of the problem if not all is in that area.

With the low cost accurate laser tachs of today it is feasable for the average guy. It also is a very accurate device to check for factory idle speed. The dash tach is not accurate enough really I suspect to depend on. Thats if it is even working. Plus you have one more tool to misplace and search for in your collection when needed since it is so infrequently used.

Since you have a 616. In my opinion it is wise to check the fuel supply pressure in the base of the injection pump. You need all the performance a 616 is capable of producing. Plus that fuel pressure seems to affect many things. If I aquired your car because it is a 616 especially I would check that pressure in the first week.

Also it occured to me the faster turning starter may have enabled the car to start before the base pressure built so high it shut the shut down device on the injection pump off. As soon as the engine comes to life it may instantly reduce blowby greatly enabiling the engine to continue running. As your overall oil consumption is only about a quart every 1300 miles it is unlikely the preforming like a steam engine is as bad when running. Whatever as the kids say it is good the starter has helped.

Agree on the fuel pressure.
Reading the fuel pressure thread and then checking and adjusting it is what got me to join this forum.
I couldn't believe something so simple could have such a dramatic effect.
I also couldn't ask without being a member.
Since then the simple things have been easier to diagnose and repair due to all the help I receive and the wealth of info the search function returns.

As you said if the car has been starting like that since you bought it how do you know if the starter is dragging.
Not until I bought the wife the 300SD and had something to compare did I even suspect the starter.

The starter seemed fine.
Now the blowby and the compression is what my money was on.
If you loosen the oil cap and don't hold on tight the cap hits the hood and a face full of oil follows.
Its been that way since I bought it.
It runs great when started ..... Started being the key word.

This car has been amazing. Just when I think its down for the count it surprises me and goes another round.

Old Mercedes in general I guess.

It becomes a love hate relationship.

I'll PM you for the info on the tach .... get my list turned in to misses Claus

Thanks for the Input.

__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!



86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes

IF you fitted a 300D 5 pot-starter on a 240D 4 pot motor....

It WILL turn engine faster and it'll start easier.....

(Shh, Its a Different Starter, intended for a larger engine!)

The 300/240D starters LOOK the same, but the 300D one has a different armature apparently...
--They have different Bosch Part-numbers on the case too...

When tracing any sluggish starting, something often overlooked, is the Earth-Return strap from bell-housing to the chassis on the LHD -Driver's side of the car,
--Pass side RHD....

A little high resistance caused by a little corrosion under the chassis end here can be disasterous for a cold-start....!

__________________
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

Can you provide the 2 different Bosch p/n's on the case for a 240D vs 300D starter?

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

I'll dig through my pile of starters later. I have 3 x 300D ones and another from a 220/240D engine...

As I recall, the 220/240 one has a '0311' end to the number or similar and the 300D is 0568 or summit. Will confirm later....

I do remember the numbers are quite different in the last digits....

__________________
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

One starter may be designed for more torque or more turning speed. Could be both it the current draw is higher by design.

I guess we really should get some numbers going on what revolutions the various models engines should be turning with good starters. I wonder if mercedes has them in some literature? For some unknown reason I doubt it or it would have already come up on site.

A really good load test of the serviceability of a starter off the car is not practical.. We do not have the equipment to do it. There are a few tests we can manage but they are not conclusive enough at home.

On the otherhand a knowledge of the turning rpms of the engine leaves no doubt. This we can do at home and is possibly superior to even most garages.Dare I say the vast majority. First we need the normal cranking numbers.

Just for curiosity I went and looked up a laser tach a minute ago. Accurate from 2.5 rpm to 99,000 rpm with less than 0.1 error. I imagine they will also read a little below 2.5 rpm just not sure and if so if the accuracy declines.

My quoted price of 20-25 dollars for them I earlier quoted related to when I brought mine. Ebay item number 370431651998 as buy it now curently with reflective tape,case, instructions etc. is $2.62 plus $8.35 shipping or $10.97 total to your door. A fair amount of value for the dollar in my opinion. I think this vendor has lots of them as well.

My standard disclaimer. I have no vested or perifial interest in their company. Nor am I sleeping with his wife or daughter.I also cannot gaurantee if you use the money instead to buy a loto ticket you will prevail unfortunatly.

Not everyone is gonna buy a phototach. It's be useful to have a sound file datatbase with various cranking rpm. I have measured 3 cars including mine using my phototach . Mine is the slowest. I can definitely hear the different in pitch between the 3 cars. I'll do a video (w sound) on mine and start a new thread named "starter rpm sound database" and others with phototachs can send theirs in.

Great ideal. Any baselines that are established as a result should be quite helpful to many over time. When the typical posters start soon with my car will not start cold posts especially.

We have never in the past been able to express the preffered cranking speed requirements other than in a random questionable fashion before. I used to always like the well meaning question is the starter cranking well? We had no way to qualify or quantify what well exactly was. As a direct result a lot of sub standard cranking speeds were not determined. Or the starter was just changed out when the old one was still good. Of course some where slow as well but all in all just guesswork. Unless you work on identical models on a daily basis.

That tends to be somewhat more myserable than an $11.00 laser phototach expendature.

So if it costs a poster ten dollars or so to get a phototach if he is in difficulty it has to be cheaper than a going to a garage. Plus they may still miss it. The audio burbs might be enough as well as you thought about. We will see.

Anyways thanks for starting a new thread for this area. It is going to give people something to think about. Plus by now they must be tired of my endless posts.