Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-13-2010, 11:01 PM
soothappens's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alamo city
Posts: 494
240D standard shift problem

While shifting it will sometimes feel as if it misses a gear. The shifter feels as if its attached to a rubberband it pushes forward or backward with some spring but never engages. Correcting means simply returning it to neutral and reshifting to whatever gear it missed . This happens to my wife more than me and its intermittent.

Does any one know what this can be or if theres any posts on this. I dont even know how to word this in the search.


Thanks in advance !!

__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:06 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
There are several mechanisms that can contribute to a rubbery, imprecise feel of the shift lever. One can be the actual mechanism the shift lever is connected to directly under the rubber boot. This item is a device that aligns the end of the shift lever that engages the rods that reach forward to the input levers on the transmission (1st gear to 2nd gear is one lever, 3and 4th are another). If the mechanism is wearing out, you can "miss" the next gear as you pass through neutral since there is a new degree of freedom created by the worn parts of the shift lever - the new degree of freedom is slop in the motion that allows the mechanism to lose its way once it gets into the area of the throw that is "neutral." The fix here is difficult unless it is merely a capturing feature on one end that has come out. I don't recall how this actually works at the moment (on travel and can't go look) but I believe there are some past threads on the subject of the shift mechanism that go into detail.

Or, the little rubber bushings on the rods that connect the shift mechanisms under the shift lever to the input levers that operate the gear selection forks in the transmission. Those are easy to fix. You merely pop the old ones all the way out and push new ones on. These are also the subject of past threads.

Good luck,

Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:45 AM
soothappens's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alamo city
Posts: 494
Jim thanks for the reply. You gave me a great explanation that helped me visualize how the shifter works . for some reason I was thinking only about the rods and not the actual shift gates. Now it makes more sense. Its definitely missing the catches as the amount of throw you get from it rules out the rubber bushings.

I'll search shift mechanism and see what I get. I hope its as easy as the old hurst shifters. Just tighten the bolts.

Have a safe trip and thanks for the info.
__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-14-2010, 02:07 AM
soothappens's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alamo city
Posts: 494
Well the search worked I pulled up numerous posts . I found out it can be the bushings as there are upper and lower in the arms as well as the shifter itself. I also know I can rule out the power ranger problem LMAO.

This forum is fantastic no more poking around in the dark. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:21 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,068
By all means, look at the posts, but this is one area where I think you just really need to take an hour to pull the shifter boot and crawl under the car and just eyeball what is going on. Many of the bushings can be fixed reasonably well with various pieces of tubing and pipe you may have lying around the house. For example, one common wear item is the "top hat" bushing on the driver's side end of the shifter - I used a piece of PVC pipe to fix mine. There's also a great exploded diagram of the shifter in the Haynes manual if you find that you need to disassemble it. From your description I would be looking at the shifter- you may find that the shifter keys are loose on the shifter shaft or the shaft is not pushed together tightly.

Rick
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:58 PM
soothappens's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alamo city
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
By all means, look at the posts, but this is one area where I think you just really need to take an hour to pull the shifter boot and crawl under the car and just eyeball what is going on. Many of the bushings can be fixed reasonably well with various pieces of tubing and pipe you may have lying around the house. For example, one common wear item is the "top hat" bushing on the driver's side end of the shifter - I used a piece of PVC pipe to fix mine. There's also a great exploded diagram of the shifter in the Haynes manual if you find that you need to disassemble it. From your description I would be looking at the shifter- you may find that the shifter keys are loose on the shifter shaft or the shaft is not pushed together tightly.

Rick
Rick what your calling the top hat bushing is the one under the reverse switch? A round cylinder where the rod that the shifter slides on goes in ? if so this has about an 1/8" of play up and down say 1/16th per side. I had recently lubed all of this with a cable and chain lube. Could this have done it ?
Thanks,
Jeff
__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-15-2010, 08:27 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,068
I wouldn't say it's under the reverse switch- a better description is that its in the shifter to body mount on the driver's side. I'm not finding it easily on Fastlane but it looks like this:



http://www.*********.com/ntparts/sb/oes_genuine/w0133-1642114.html

When the shift mechanism is functioning nominally there should be virtually no play at all between the crossshaft ( that holds all the shift "keys") and the mount.

It's been awhile since I dug into mine. I have a Haynes manual at home, so if you need further guidance, let me know and I will scan a page this weekend.

Rick
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)

Last edited by rs899; 01-15-2010 at 08:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-15-2010, 03:57 PM
soothappens's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alamo city
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
I wouldn't say it's under the reverse switch- a better description is that its in the shifter to body mount on the driver's side. I'm not finding it easily on Fastlane but it looks like this:



http://www.*********.com/ntparts/sb/oes_genuine/w0133-1642114.html

When the shift mechanism is functioning nominally there should be virtually no play at all between the crossshaft ( that holds all the shift "keys") and the mount.

It's been awhile since I dug into mine. I have a Haynes manual at home, so if you need further guidance, let me know and I will scan a page this weekend.

Rick

Thanks for the picture. I think I know where the play is coming from now. the top hat bushing is non existent . seems like a easy fix if thats the only thing wrong. I'll get on it this weekend and post results.
__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-16-2010, 07:48 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,068
You didn't ask, but I scanned the Haynes manual anyway ( bought one of those all-in-one printers and wanted to try that feature).

The top hat is #23. It is a very common wear item.

It would probably do your shifting a world of good if you disassembled the thing- the 26As are push on fasteners that need to be carefully pried apart. Lube all your shift keys and put them together. Re-bush the ends of the shifter keys with the proper MB bushings if you have the time to get them, or just use vinyl hose (works for awhile- better than steel on steel). The symptoms you are describing lead me to believe that the keys are loose on the shaft- take a look.

#30 bushing on the passenger's side is fairly critical. That will probably be a dealer only item, if you can get it.

The shifter on this car is a marvel of precision.
When this is right, you can shift with two fingers....


Rick
Attached Thumbnails
240D standard shift problem-ccf01162010_00001-3.jpg  
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)

Last edited by rs899; 01-16-2010 at 08:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-16-2010, 08:25 PM
soothappens's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alamo city
Posts: 494
Rick, a very big thank you for the breakdown picture. Good god I've overhauled carburetors with less parts. #30 is where the slack is on mine. Guess I'm going to the dealer . I had no idea the links were under that cover. for some reason I was picturing it in line with the shifter. Hurst mentality I guess.

Your correct on the shifting . You almost forget its a standard its just smooth. you could almost compare it to a key in a high end lock cylinder . A little click then positive engagement.

I take it the all in one is working satisfactory. I have one but have no idea how to use it . My sons the computer guru. I just keep the fleet running. Good luck with it. I get my slave cylinder on monday then I tear into the shifter. I'll post results .

Once again a big thanks for the help!

Jeff
__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-27-2010, 09:37 PM
soothappens's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alamo city
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
You didn't ask, but I scanned the Haynes manual anyway ( bought one of those all-in-one printers and wanted to try that feature).

The top hat is #23. It is a very common wear item.

It would probably do your shifting a world of good if you disassembled the thing- the 26As are push on fasteners that need to be carefully pried apart. Lube all your shift keys and put them together. Re-bush the ends of the shifter keys with the proper MB bushings if you have the time to get them, or just use vinyl hose (works for awhile- better than steel on steel). The symptoms you are describing lead me to believe that the keys are loose on the shaft- take a look.

#30 bushing on the passenger's side is fairly critical. That will probably be a dealer only item, if you can get it.

The shifter on this car is a marvel of precision.
When this is right, you can shift with two fingers....


Rick

Well finally had time to pull the shifter apart . You were right # 23 was not only worn but missing along with #10 the top hat bushing came apart and the spring fell out . I found what was left of the bushing and the spring under the floor mat it falls into the console when it breaks.

I fabricated a aluminum cup with a nylon bushing . The nylon bushing came from a John Deere mower deck. I split it on an angle and filed it the same way you would gap piston rings until it was snug in the cup . Added a washer and the spring lubricated all parts and shes shifting again.

All the keys were tight on the shaft. The problem that I found was the space that the top hat bushing took up between the spring washers and wear washers sandwiches every thing together . When the bushing goes out the gap left is large enough to allow the shift lockpin to wedge in between the keys and give you a missed shift feel. Replacing it traps the pin in the keys.

My suggestion is when you feel this occurring fix it right away. The lockpin is a slip fit relying on the keys and spring to keep it in place. If the keys open and the pin falls out it drops onto the road leaving you stranded . It didnt happen to me but I can see now how it could.

Thanks for all the help !!!!
__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-27-2010, 11:47 PM
soothappens's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alamo city
Posts: 494
Ok I fixed the shifter but I'm confused . Its never had the spring detent before. Ive searched and found the shift pattern but I cant find anything on how the spring makes the shifter act.

My shifter has the reverse lockout and when you go to put it in gear it springs over to the 3rd 4th position of the pattern requiring you to pull it towards you to engage 1st and 2nd is this correct ? It seems a little awkward .
__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-28-2010, 07:32 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,068
I think that is correct- the spring bias is there to help you make the 2-3 shift. You will get used to it soon and LIKE it. Driving the VW today....
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-28-2010, 08:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 126
Sounds right. Glad you got it figured out.
__________________
1979 240D Caledonia Green/cream gone
1982 240D stick Ivory/Palimino
1999 E300D White/grey
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-28-2010, 11:32 AM
soothappens's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alamo city
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
I think that is correct- the spring bias is there to help you make the 2-3 shift. You will get used to it soon and LIKE it. Driving the VW today....
That works for me thanks for the help and the picture I referenced it several times while repairing the shifter .

I love it , feels totally different a lot more precise !!

__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page