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  #1  
Old 02-06-2010, 02:22 PM
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W123 no start, getting fuel to only two injectors

I'm unable to start my 1983 300TD (248,000 miles). I cracked the fuel line at each injector, one at a time, and cranked the engine a few seconds without glow plugs. I get fuel to the two injectors towards the rear. The other three are dry. When I try to start it, it sounds like it's trying to catch but not firing on all cylinders.

Background: I'm actual in the middle of coolant service with the front wheels on ramps. Does that create problem if the engine is uphill?

While doing a flush (clean water with thermostat out and monovalve replaced with an elbow) I checked under the engine for leaks and found oil streaming out! Somehow, sometime, the plastic lubricating oil line to the injection pump had cracked. I am not sure how long this had been a problem and if there was any damage to the injection pump.

Glow plugs recently replaced. Started right up without problem before this.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Rob
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2010, 04:22 PM
toomany MBZ's Avatar
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Aliens?
Replace that line first.
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  #3  
Old 02-06-2010, 04:58 PM
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I had the aliens replace the line after they broke it.

I also tried bypassing the fuel tank with a fuel jar hooked up before the primer pump. Same thing. Why would three injectors not get fuel while two do?
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  #4  
Old 02-06-2010, 06:19 PM
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You could have taken a big gulp of air from the fuel tank. How full is your tank? The TD has a horizontally mounted tank so is more sensitive to low fuel than the sedans. On mine, if the tank is low and I go around a sharp corner, the engine will cut out because all the fuel sloshed to one side exposing the pick up to air.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
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1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2010, 07:10 PM
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With VIDEO!

I have way more than half a tank. But I have the same problem if I bypass the tank and connect a jar of diesel to the supply and return lines in the engine bay.

But look, I made a movie! I taped my iPhone to the vacuum line (not very well as you will see) and recorded the IP as I cranked the engine with all the hard lines removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwTOVujrZVU

The center one shoots fuel. The rear two sputter along. The front two do nothing. Is my IP shot? Could a severe IP timing problem cause this?

Rob
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  #6  
Old 02-06-2010, 07:48 PM
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I'd say the IP is shot, looking at that. I'm guessing that break was there for a while and just starved the pump of lubrication, the cam lobes could have just worn down. How is the level on the dipstick? You wouldn't notice a leak cause it would only leak while driving. That stinks, looks like it's pick-n-pull time!
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2010, 07:54 PM
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I wondered about oil starvation damaging the IP too. Seems coincidental that this would happen after he gets it up on some ramps?? Did it start ok before you drove up on the ramps to do the service? Don't know what an IP with air in it might do in a similar video. Nice video by the way.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2010, 09:08 PM
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I also do not think the injection pump failed in the last twenty foot trip either.
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2010, 11:28 PM
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Where is this PLASTIC oil lubricating line that goes to the injection pump and can it be replaced with a longer lasting metal line or rubber?
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2010, 12:53 AM
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Yeah, it's a bummer, but I can't really complain. I got the Cheap Wagon Club car last year. I offered $500 but the seller just asked me to give him a credit for that amount of work on the replacement 300TD he was buying.

It was not running. A mechanic said the IP was out, but the problem was really GPs. I've put three thousand miles on it and was about to drive it to New York. It's entirely possible that it's been dicey for a while. I'm glad it gave out before I hit the road.

The Lubricating Oil Line is shown in the photo below. I imagine there is a good reason for making it flexible. It did last a quarter million miles. Perhaps this should be a preventative maintenance item like radiator hoses. I guess it might get bumped while working on the primer pump or lift pump. I might have hit it a time or two while priming.

What should I expect to pay for a used IP? There are no good P&Ps out here. The few Mercedes I've seen in El Paso were picked over. I understand Houston gets a regular supply at the yards, but that's 600 miles away. I guess I'll try my luck over on the parts board.

On the bright side, IP timing was on my list of things to check...

Drawing: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/diesel-discussion/76974d1264997615-what-line-lubricating-oil-line.jpg
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  #11  
Old 02-07-2010, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanarcher View Post
Where is this PLASTIC oil lubricating line that goes to the injection pump and can it be replaced with a longer lasting metal line or rubber?
I would think you could replace that with something as long as you use the banjo fittings.
Not sure if a compressed spring on the fuel bypass valve, recently discussed, would produce your symptoms.
Located on the IP behind the circled banjo bolt, I think.
A clogged filter may be the culprit too.
Attached Thumbnails
W123 no start, getting fuel to only two injectors-ip-oil-line.jpg   W123 no start, getting fuel to only two injectors-ip-fuel-lines-banjo-bolt-near.jpg   W123 no start, getting fuel to only two injectors-fuel-bypass-valve.jpg  
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:03 PM
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Thanks for the suggestion. I checked that already and stretched the spring from 21mm to 26mm. No change.

Just curious, what are the symptoms of a bad lift pump?
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2010, 01:25 PM
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There are NO Plastic Lubrication Lines to the IP....

It gets its oil from the front end where its mounted to the cyl. block.
--I would think that plastic line is either a vac line from the gearbox or something similar.

--But DEFINATELY NOT a Lubrication Line for the Injection-Pump!

--It Could Be the Oil-Pressure-Guage line--Thats thin plastic a little like a vac line down near the IP....

The issue of non starting sounds classic air in IP.--What did it run like last time it ran??--Pumps just dont 'Quit' like that!

Change BOTH filters, and Operate Primer until you can hear a 'squeak'/buzzing sound on each down-stroke. This will then mean the whole gallery in the pump is full of fuel and the filters are full.
While you're doing this, check the clear Plastic fuel-lines to the lift-pump and I.P to and from filter for air-bubbles. Continue pumping untill there are no bubbles in these pipes.

Slacken ALL H.P. lines, and crank until ALL H.P. lines spit fuel.

Re-tighten, then start engine. May take a good few cranks, but KEEP IT TURNING on starter at full throttle till it catches

--Job done.
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  #14  
Old 02-07-2010, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair View Post
There are NO Plastic Lubrication Lines to the IP....

It gets its oil from the front end where its mounted to the cyl. block.
--I would think that plastic line is either a vac line from the gearbox or something similar.

--But DEFINATELY NOT a Lubrication Line for the Injection-Pump!

--It Could Be the Oil-Pressure-Guage line--Thats thin plastic a little like a vac line down near the IP....
I would think that folks who really know what they are talking about would not need to engage in speculation!!!

On the 617.95 engine, lube oil is supplied to the IP via a flexible line.

Last edited by tangofox007; 02-07-2010 at 02:05 PM.
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  #15  
Old 02-07-2010, 05:59 PM
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The image below comes from the FSM for the OM617.952. All I can say is that the line is plastic and if you break it while the engine is running, it will pump your oil onto the ground PDQ!

I hold out hope that the IP is still good. That's why I was wondering if the lift pump might be starving the IP. These are some of the things that I do not know. The list is not short.
Attached Thumbnails
W123 no start, getting fuel to only two injectors-ip-oil.jpg  
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:59 PM
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