Key won't turn drama - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cewyattjr · #1 02-20-2010, 05:50 PM

This is the second time I've had a "no start" situation at the local Lowe's parking lot. Not sure what's jinxed about that, but anyway..

Came back to the car from the shopping trip and the key wouldn't turn to the final start/crank position. Glow plug light position comes on, just not the final spring to the right for cranking. Wiggled the key, tried a different key, moved the transmission from drive back to park several times, still no workie.

I read about how to do the hot wire start on this thread which was a huge help.

Now thanks to that thread, I have my car back home in the driveway, but wondering what this key turn symptom suggests -- the need for a new tumbler? I've hard that can be a huge expensive pain.

Thanks for any wisdom on this, much appreciated.

-Chuck

fruitcakesa · #2 02-20-2010, 06:31 PM

The tumbler replacement alone is a simple fix,
If the key gets stuck then it becomes a PITA.

C Sean Watts · #3 02-20-2010, 06:45 PM

A new tumble from the dealer is in the $90 range. I had a bad experience 'saving' money by trying to cheap out on it - dealer parts dept. is the best choice. You can order it by the VIN.

cewyattjr · #4 02-20-2010, 07:18 PM

Thanks all -- does that symptom sound like the tumbler? Turns all the way except the for that last crank option. In a way it sort of feels like what happens if you try and turn the key when the transmission isn't in park.

raslaje · #5 02-20-2010, 08:43 PM

Removal and Installation of Steering Lock
46-640.pdf - 2.69MB

Removal and Installation of Steering Lock (cont)
46-640-2.pdf - 2.50MB

Might help, might not.

nckmsn · #6 02-20-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cewyattjr

Thanks all -- does that symptom sound like the tumbler? Turns all the way except the for that last crank option. In a way it sort of feels like what happens if you try and turn the key when the transmission isn't in park.

Did you try starting it in neutral?

cewyattjr · #7 02-20-2010, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nckmsn

Did you try starting it in neutral?

That's a thought. I'm going out in the morning with a tube of graphite and I'll try the neutral option. I'm not too optimistic, though.

I wonder what the mechanism is that is supposed to allow it to crank only in park?

cewyattjr · #8 02-20-2010, 09:47 PM

Thanks raslaje for the documentation, I've downloaded it, in case it is what's needed!

Tried neutral start, but no go.

4x4_Welder · #9 02-21-2010, 12:50 AM

It sounds like a failure of the second start lockout, presumably that prevents you from engaging the starter when the engine is already running, but when it fails to start the first go round you have to turn the key all the way back to lock and try again. Try turning the key counter clockwise a bit. Not too hard, just see if it budges a bit. If that doesn't work, then it'll have to be replaced. I'm not sure if that's in the tumbler part or the switch part, maybe someone else knows?

The park/neutral start switch is just electrical, and doesn't stop the key from turning. It just opens the circuit to the starter solenoid so you can't start in gear.

cewyattjr · #10 02-21-2010, 09:33 AM

Just want to verify what is being referred to by "key counter." The starter/lock mechanism?

cewyattjr · #11 02-21-2010, 12:08 PM

So, tried a good bit graphite, but there continues to be no option to take it to that final "start" notch to the far right.

I'm thinking if I took the bait on

an item like this on eBay, a full replacement would do the trick???

Thanks so much!

-Chuck

4x4_Welder · #12 02-21-2010, 02:51 PM

It's probably a bad thing to buy from someone who can't clearly describe what they have. I really can't understand if that's the new one, the old one, some combination, or if he just bought additional parts.
I think we're talking about the same thing, it just keeps you from re-engaging the starter. It should be part of the tumbler assembly, but I'm really not sure, and a lot of what I know to be logical automotive design is different on these cars. Replacing the whole assembly is a sure way to hit the issue though.

cewyattjr · #13 02-21-2010, 03:36 PM

I was thinking the same thing... I can't tell if this is left over parts or he changed his mind or what.

I'm on the hunt though for the full assembly. Thanks very much for the help on this.

cewyattjr · #14 02-21-2010, 03:50 PM

Ended up buying

this one.

charmalu · #15 02-21-2010, 08:14 PM

Iam wondering why in the first e-bay listing, the guy didn`t keep his keys. they go with the vin# of the vehicle. If you do decide to use the tumbler and keys, and you loose your keys, how are you going to get another from the dealer? be sure to use the tumbler and key for your vehicle.

The one you purchased has the pins on the rear exposed for the electrical plug. the later version has the pins in a cup for the plug to fit into.

I replaced the one in the 85 300D, and it has the cup. was $168.00 new from Phill.
I just replace the assembly on the 80 240D. It has the pin exposed. I pulled that assembly from PNP for $12.00,

and used my tumbler. turns smooth as silk. I priced this one, and it is over $200.00

I two assembly`s differ, in the later one has 7 pins, and the early one has 8.
also the center on the later one has a flat center that the plug must have a piece that fits into the hole. the early version has a plastic shaft that is flat on one side that fits into the electrical plug.

really don`t think the are inerchangeable.

Here is a picture of the difference
http://www.allpartsexpress.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=1980-MERCEDES--BENZ---40d--/--L4--404cc--.4l--Diesel--Fi-Electrical&yearid=1980%40%401980&makeid=MERCEDES+BENZ%40%40MERCEDES+BENZ%40%40X&engineid=1192979%40%40240D++%2F+L4%2D2404cc+2%2E4L+DIESEL+FI%40%40240D&catid=Electrical%40%40Electrical&subcatid=Ignition+Switch@@Ignition+Switch&mode=PA

Charlie