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  #31  
Old 03-29-2010, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
I design windage control systems for a living.

>>Yeah, we're all taller on the internet.
Yes. Hmm. I have designed and made more windage control systems for more engines from more marques than any other company on the planet. Many hundreds of engines with thousands of variants. They are in use all over the world. Some people can back up what they say.

What I wrote about the behavior of the system was correct.
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  #32  
Old 03-29-2010, 04:43 PM
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I have followed this thread with interest

I have seen posts from very competent engineers in this thread but can someone please educate me why overfil or underfil 1/4 inch of oil would make a difference.

Adding oil to engine is not rocket science and the dip stick is such a crude measurement device that 1/4" is well within the tolerance. BTW, we do not dispense oil using a precision device down to milli-litre.

My $0.02
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2 x 87 300SDL
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  #33  
Old 03-29-2010, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
I have seen posts from very competent engineers in this thread but can someone please educate me why overfil or underfil 1/4 inch of oil would make a difference.

Adding oil to engine is not rocket science and the dip stick is such a crude measurement device that 1/4" is well within the tolerance. BTW, we do not dispense oil using a precision device down to milli-litre.

My $0.02
The most practical reason? Because if your engine failed for an oil related reason and was overfilled Mercedes would probably not honor the warranty. Their warning is very clear.

I am not sure why all the drama. The advice was to make sure that the air filter was clean in this particular situation.

Yikes.
Attached Thumbnails
overfilled oil-sta71787.jpg  

Last edited by Kevin Johnson; 03-29-2010 at 06:36 PM.
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  #34  
Old 03-29-2010, 05:22 PM
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Even without the fact that the engine manufacturers made Marks on the dipstick ... to indicate the proper range of oil in the engine...
The consensus is...if you check the archives... that these engines use less oil if the oil is kept at the half way mark on the dipstick... for whatever reason... I know mine is that way.. In the past I was one to keep the oil on the top of the full mark .. not any more...
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  #35  
Old 03-29-2010, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Johnson View Post
The most practical reason? Because if your engine failed for an oil related reason and was overfilled Mercedes would probably not honor the warranty. Their warning is very clear.

I am not sure why all the drama. The advice was to make sure that the air filter was clean in this particular situation.

Yikes.
If 1/4" inch overfill would kill the engine then I seriously doubt MBZ diesel engine would have as good a reputation as it has now.
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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

2 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #36  
Old 03-29-2010, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
I have seen posts from very competent engineers in this thread but can someone please educate me why overfil or underfil 1/4 inch of oil would make a difference.

Adding oil to engine is not rocket science and the dip stick is such a crude measurement device that 1/4" is well within the tolerance. BTW, we do not dispense oil using a precision device down to milli-litre.

My $0.02
Make that $0.04. Those were my original $0.02 way back there as well. If it was a jet or something, *maybe* it would matter to be that finicky. These old tractor engines shouldn't be that sensitive. If they were, LOTS of careless owners would have killed them already.
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  #37  
Old 03-29-2010, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bustedbenz View Post
... If they were, LOTS of careless owners would have killed them already.
One can only imagine. I suspect there is a reason they printed the warning on the filler cap in German and English.
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  #38  
Old 03-29-2010, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Johnson View Post
One can only imagine. I suspect there is a reason they printed the warning on the filler cap in German and English.
Is this perchance an aftermarket filler cap? Mine have an oil symbol, ...
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  #39  
Old 03-30-2010, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
Is this perchance an aftermarket filler cap? Mine have an oil symbol, ...

I am attaching some pictures -- I apologize for the low quality. The Mercedes part number embossed on it is: 111 018 03 02. It is made by Reutter. The part number is preceded by the Mercedes Benz symbol. I suppose it could be a fake made by the world's most conscientious counterfeiter.

I do know from speaking with the previous owner that the engine was swapped at some point. It is a turbocharged engine of course (it has the original head for a 1987 SDL).

This sounds like a later cap than yours. Probably a decision was made to place the warning on the cap after too many customers blew their engines under warranty by putting too much oil in them.

You should also remember that turbocharged engines generally have a higher crankcase pressure. The increased atmosphere magnifies windage effects just as depressed atmospheres reduce them.
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overfilled oil-cap-.jpg   overfilled oil-cap-b.jpg   overfilled oil-cap-c.jpg  
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  #40  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:27 AM
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Yep, not your original cap. Looks more like the one from my '91 4matic (long long gone), and I'm sure that the text is there due to the concern of overfilling the sump on that engine, it is fairly obvious that some degree of overfilling is a concern, but still doesn't apply to the OP's question about 1/4" overfill on his 616 engine.

You're really hung up on this windage issue, perhaps you should start a thread?
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  #41  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
Yep, not your original cap. Looks more like the one from my '91 4matic (long long gone), and I'm sure that the text is there due to the concern of overfilling the sump on that engine, it is fairly obvious that some degree of overfilling is a concern, but still doesn't apply to the OP's question about 1/4" overfill on his 616 engine.

You're really hung up on this windage issue, perhaps you should start a thread?

http://autotechteile.com/en/ekat_1_18.php

I think it is as I described -- Mercedes is weary of paying for people's inattention under warranty.

Mercedes is really hung up on this windage issue too, hence the 5 scrapers. I suggest you do just a wee bit more research on this topic before calling me to task.
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  #42  
Old 03-30-2010, 12:36 PM
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Great Kevin, you've shown beyond reasonable doubt, that it truly is a replacement, and not original. And again how does this answer the OP's question? It doesn't. Great trivia however.

It appears that you're far more interested in finding a way to win an argument, than to help the OP, even if you have to change the argument to whether fins are designed as scrapers or baffles, ... no service to the OP here in 2 pages, carry on and have fun.
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  #43  
Old 03-30-2010, 12:53 PM
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so what the he!! do those 'fins' in the oil pan do?

oil, at rest, certainly does not ride that high in the pan, does it? If it does, then the fins are to stop the turbulence in the oil, correct?
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  #44  
Old 03-30-2010, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elchivito View Post
What potential damage can too much oil do? Son checks the oil yesterday after a chiding from me about his not checking it weekly like I'd told him to. It was at the low mark. He added oil. I took the car to town on some errands and stopped for fuel. Checked it again and it's now about 1/8 to 1/4 inch ABOVE the high mark.
Should I drain some?

oil, when slightly too high, will just burn due to the things mentioned

but oil filled really high might blow seals or stall the engine (runaway was already mentioned)


Personally, I haven't yet found these engines to be that sensitive yet. Other engines I have had will start fine, but once the oil gets to temp, the car will stall, maybe putter at first, then stall. Oil tends to get in places you don't want it when this happens.
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  #45  
Old 03-30-2010, 01:12 PM
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wow

In my short time here, it's become apparent that the best way to start a long, winding, divisive thread is to make oil it's topic.
Count me as one of those whose car likes to be at the half way mark on the dipstick. When I first got it, about 4k miles ago, I was fanatical trying to keep it at the full mark and quickly became concerned that it was using too much oil. When I finally realized that the oil would eventually level out at the half way mark and stay there for a long time without going lower, I stopped worrying. My main concerns with this recent oil fill were potential damage to the motor, and excess smoke from burning off that excess oil. I see now that while it's probably not a huge issue and it makes sense that part of the longevity of these motors is their relatively forgiving nature, my personal version of the 616 is happiest at the midpoint, smokes less and uses less oil. Draining a bit out wasn't that big of a deal, and if it happens again I'll do the same. I really enjoyed reading all the tech stuff here too. The breadth of knowledge (never mind opinions) on this forum is awesome.
thanks guys!
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