Global Coolant - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

shertex · #1 04-01-2010, 11:02 AM

After reading many of the green-stuff-versus-orange-stuff debates....

While everyone seems to agree that MB coolant (or the Zerex) is ideal (though there is some debate as to whether it's necessary), it does seem that some folks have had problems converting from green to orange (due to various difficulties encountered when doing the required/recommended citric acid flush).

So wouldn't the simplest approach be to use a global coolant? Doesn't that accomplish the same thing? Or do the global products that are out there still have corrosive effects?

vstech · #2 04-01-2010, 11:07 AM

a citric flush is only needed when there is rust/sediment in the block/radiator. to convert back to proper coolant, all you need to do is remove the drain plug in the block, and flush out with water the heater plumbing and the radaitor etc. tank... then drain well, and fill with the proper ratio for your climate of distilled water and zerex g05

bustedbenz · #3 04-01-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

So wouldn't the simplest approach be to use a global coolant? Doesn't that accomplish the same thing? Or do the global products that are out there still have corrosive effects?

I've been using Peak Global in the SDL for the past four years or so. Can't tell that it's had any negative effects whatsoever. Every time I mention it, somebody posts a document describing exactly why it's the devil's own antifreeze (something about organic acids)... but I haven't had any real-world problems from it. The bottle says explicitly "safe for aluminum engine parts" or something to that effect...

vstech · #4 04-01-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

I've been using Peak Global in the SDL for the past four years or so. Can't tell that it's had any negative effects whatsoever. Every time I mention it, somebody posts a document describing exactly why it's the devil's own antifreeze (something about organic acids)... but I haven't had any real-world problems from it. The bottle says explicitly "safe for aluminum engine parts" or something to that effect...

it's not the aluminum parts you have to worry about, it's the plastic ones...

SirNik84 · #5 04-01-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

it's not the aluminum parts you have to worry about, it's the plastic ones...

YES YES and where they meet!

I went looking for Zerex about 6 months back. It use to be at Walmart and AutoZone. both places no longer stock it... I can't recall if I checked Napa, they close early, so maybe not. But it seems like it got hard to find. AutoZone guy kept reading me the bottle of Peak brand coolant, saying "its good for all models" I'm not having any of that after I had to replace my radiator!

BTW, There is Green (standard coolant) Orange (Dex Cool for GM) and Yellow (Zerex G-05 for MB and Chrysler)

I think its a conspiracy, because they only stock Orange and Green in my neck of the woods now!

Oh, one other thought, DON"T mix them. I've never had a problem changing form green to yellow, but I know for a fact that green+orange=SOLIDS in your radiator. Don't ask how I know

tbomachines · #6 04-01-2010, 01:42 PM

(Psst! Allpartsexpress and fastlane have the MB coolant for about the same price as G-05 in auto parts stores). Bundle it with a $100 order for the shipping....

bustedbenz · #7 04-02-2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

it's not the aluminum parts you have to worry about, it's the plastic ones...

I'm not sure what it can do to them. If you look at the technologies, regular old green coolant uses inorganic additives to provide anti-corrosion properties. Mainly, silicates.

OAT coolants like Peak Global and other global/lifetime products use organic acids to provide that same protection. The advantage to the organic material is that it lasts longer, compared to the stuff in the green coolant that wears out sooner as it reacts over time.

Zerex G-05 is a HOAT -- Hybrid OAT. Hybrid implies a mixture of two technologies. What is the other technology? Inorganic green coolant material.

Is the full OAT antifreeze a higher concentration of whatever those additives are than the Zerex? Certainly. But all that means is that if there are damaging effects from organic acids, then the organic acids contained in Zerex G-05 will cause the same damage, just over a longer time. Plus, whatever the original reason for removing the IAT (inorganic acid) coolant was in the first place -- we're all paranoid about green coolant now -- why get some of that technology blended back in? If I'm going to avoid one set of problems, might as well trade it in completely.

see q10 on this page: http://www.turbodieselregister.com/tdrarticles/tdrarticle62_antifreeze.html

vstech · #8 04-02-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

I'm not sure what it can do to them. If you look at the technologies, regular old green coolant uses inorganic additives to provide anti-corrosion properties. Mainly, silicates.

OAT coolants like Peak Global and other global/lifetime products use organic acids to provide that same protection. The advantage to the organic material is that it lasts longer, compared to the stuff in the green coolant that wears out sooner as it reacts over time.

Zerex G-05 is a HOAT -- Hybrid OAT. Hybrid implies a mixture of two technologies. What is the other technology? Inorganic green coolant material.

Is the full OAT antifreeze a higher concentration of whatever those additives are than the Zerex? Certainly. But all that means is that if there are damaging effects from organic acids, then the organic acids contained in Zerex G-05 will cause the same damage, just over a longer time. Plus, whatever the original reason for removing the IAT (inorganic acid) coolant was in the first place -- we're all paranoid about green coolant now -- why get some of that technology blended back in? If I'm going to avoid one set of problems, might as well trade it in completely.

see q10 on this page: http://www.turbodieselregister.com/tdrarticles/tdrarticle62_antifreeze.html

ok, now read q11, and q12...
what's their answer?...
use the gold coolant because it's what the vehicle was designed for.

cscmc1 · #9 04-02-2010, 10:26 AM

Every NAPA I have checked has been able to get Zerex G-05 for me. A few have had to let me page through their books to find it, but I believe it should be available to any NAPA store. Don't let them tell you otherwise w/o looking through their catalog yourself.

Carpenterman · #10 04-02-2010, 10:30 AM

The only place I could find the G-05 locally was NAPA. They found it in their cataloque, however, they would only order a case minimum.

I finally found it at a store called Andersons in Columbus, Ohio. It was the 50/50 blend. I bought it, but does G-05 always come this way?

cscmc1 · #11 04-02-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpenterman

The only place I could find the G-05 locally was NAPA. They found it in their cataloque, however, they would only order a case minimum.

I finally found it at a store called Andersons in Columbus, Ohio. It was the 50/50 blend. I bought it, but does G-05 always come this way?

The 2 NAPAs local to me will order a bottle at a time. I have always gotten the full strength stuff and just added distilled water.

2.5Turbo · #12 04-02-2010, 02:26 PM

My Napa had the premixed G-05 on the shelf for something like $8 per gallon. When I did mine I got two of those and topped it off with a little bit of distilled water. My car never sees below zero so I'm ok diluting the 50/50 mix a little.

I've also heard of some Schucks having the full strength stuff, but I have never specifically looked for it at the one that is supposed to have it according to the website.

gsxr · #13 01-01-2011, 12:36 PM

The proper MB / G-05 coolant is cheap enough that this should not even be a question. Use the right stuff, and don't use anything else. Simple. If you can't find it, most likely you are not looking hard enough. Not all McParts stores carry it, or not in all locations. However NAPA is nationwide and they can order it if they don't have it in stock. You can also buy both the Mercedes bottled stuff as well as the Zerex G-05 online. Shoot, Amazon has it for $13.26 / gallon with free shipping on orders over $25! (Click here.)

It's not worth saving a couple bucks and using the high-silicate evil green stuff. Read Q12 / A12 in that article linked above... here's an excerpt:

Filling a system with the wrong coolant could cause problems. In a 300-hour test of OAT (green) coolant in a Ford engine designed for HOAT (yellow / G-05) coolant, the water pump impellor and backing plate were seriously damaged by cavitation corrosion.

Here is some more reading:

STAR Tech - MB Antifreeze Recommendations:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/antifreeze_article.pdf

Motor magazine - Coolant Confusion:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/general/Coolant_Confusion.pdf

shertex · #14 01-01-2011, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

The proper MB / G-05 coolant is cheap enough that this should not even be a question. Use the right stuff, and don't use anything else. Simple. If you can't find it, most likely you are not looking hard enough. Not all McParts stores carry it, or not in all locations. However NAPA is nationwide and they can order it if they don't have it in stock. You can also buy boththe Mercedes bottled stuff as well as the Zerex G-05 online. Shoot, Amazon has it for $9.60 / gallon with free shipping on orders over $25! (Click here.)

It's not worth saving a couple bucks and using the high-silicate evil green stuff. Read Q12 / A12 in that article linked above... here's an excerpt:

Filling a system with the wrong coolant could cause problems. In a 300-hour test of OAT (green) coolant in a Ford engine designed for HOAT (yellow / G-05) coolant, the water pump impellor and backing plate were seriously damaged by cavitation corrosion.

Here is some more reading:

STAR Tech - MB Antifreeze Recommendations:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/antifreeze_article.pdf

Motor magazine - Coolant Confusion:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/general/Coolant_Confusion.pdf

Agreed...now that I'll be doing it myself, I will make the transition.

shertex · #15 01-01-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

The proper MB / G-05 coolant is cheap enough that this should not even be a question. Use the right stuff, and don't use anything else. Simple. If you can't find it, most likely you are not looking hard enough. Not all McParts stores carry it, or not in all locations. However NAPA is nationwide and they can order it if they don't have it in stock. You can also buy both the Mercedes bottled stuff as well as the Zerex G-05 online. Shoot, Amazon has it for $9.60 / gallon with free shipping on orders over $25! (Click here.)

What's the difference between the one for 9.60 and the one for 13.26. 9.60 premixed and 13.26 concentrate? I assume so, but it's no clear.