for you freeze 12 guys - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

leathermang · #16 04-24-2010, 05:22 AM

Good Grief , who would install an old York style compressor with the smaller, smoother later model compressors available today.... anyone seen the frame needed to hold the York? They are Heavy, Vibrate, Physically LARGE , Use a lot more HP to run them AND can't take the R134a upgrade.

POS · #17 04-24-2010, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrgrassi

Autofrost is a blend as well. Notice they did not test ester type oil with Freeze-12.

Bingo.

#18 04-24-2010, 08:39 AM

If PAG won't mix with the junk, ester won't do much better.

hey_allen · #19 04-24-2010, 06:34 PM

The thing is, the test only shows Mineral oil, not even PAG.

R134 wasn't shown either, and would have failed badly with their mineral oil only test as well, since it requires POE (polyolester) or PAG (polyalkylene glycol) oil to be miscible.

To me, this appears to be a test chosen carefully to show that their product is "the" drop in substitute for R-12 with mineral oil, but without mentioning the troubles of partial blend leakage issues.

For any system that has been flushed and switched to one of the other oils, or started with one of them to begin with, you'd have different results.

kmaysob · #20 04-25-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

If PAG won't mix with the junk, ester won't do much better.

here you go hey_allen

hey_allen · #21 04-26-2010, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaysob

here you go hey_allen

I'm not sure quite what you're getting at there.
I also didn't see anything in the report saying that PAG wouldn't mix with one or another refrigerant (junk?), though I would not be surprised if some don't play nice with it, such as R12...

The part I was pointing out was that the test didn't touch on miscibility for PAG or POE, only in mineral oil.

r134 and r12 will both play nice with POE, but PAG won't help much in an R12 system, nor will R134 play nice with mineral oil.

I don't see why this is poking at the Freeze12 or FrigC or whatever refrigerant mix you care to mention, if you're not using that refrigerant's specified lube oil.

In the case of most of these, they're a mix using r134 and one or more other refrigerants, so of course they're not likely to behave nicely with the R12 specific lube.

From doing some reading elsewhere: if you look at the MSDS, it's a blend of R142b, R22 (Used in residential applications and also scheduled to be phased out), and Isobutane.

Also, Autofrost, due to having the R22 in it, calls for being 609 certified just like R12.
No, a 609 certification isn't hard to achieve, but at that point, why not use the proper refrigerant that the system was designed for?
R12 is slightly more expensive than the replacement, but it's been fairly affordable lately.

Though I'm a 609 cert tech, I do not make any claims to be an expert in this field, I just read all the information that I can get in regards to any system I'm working on. This is all information that I had either gotten while doing the 609 cert, or in 15-20 minutes of digging after stumbling across this thread.

Further reading:
http://www.audifans.com/archives/1995/07/msg00437.html
R12 a/c service <== Someone else noticing the marketing, here on our own forum, 5 years ago! This also has a good bit of Larry Bible's explanation as to the hazards of using the blends, mentioning the leakage rates.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=dgv&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=R406A+snakeoil&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
http://www.lincolnsonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-64831.htmlPost 11 in this thread mentions another concern with some of the blended refrigerants. R22 (35% of autofrost) is apparently corrosive to rubber seals, possibly why autofrost was initially for stationary equipment only. Lots of other discussion in that thread.

Personally, I don't have an iron in the fire, other than being curious as to what's out there, and mildly annoyed when some company or another uses poor science to try to prove that their product is all that and a bag of chips.

leathermang · #22 04-26-2010, 06:30 AM

Some of what you are seeing is a reaction to some of these alternative refrigerants advertising that they are ' drop in ' replacements for R12... the EPA site has some harsh words for those guys too...

BlueCrayfish · #23 04-26-2010, 07:48 AM

So is freeze-12 just a different type of R12?

vstech · #24 04-26-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueCrayfish

So is freeze-12 just a different type of R12?

nope, it's a different kind of R134... a blend.

alabbasi · #25 05-07-2010, 10:58 AM

Guys,

Following up on autofrost. I bought some of this stuff about 5 years ago because R12 was still quite expensive. A friend of mine recently bought a 75 240D which had non working a/c.

He replaced the compressor as it was seized and put two new hoses one. The replacement was a brand new York compressor and mineral oil was used.

Given that the a/c system was old and there was no telling what leaks would be found (the system pulled a vac but something could happen under pressure), we used my cylinder of R406a instead of my stash of R12.

To my surprise it worked very very well. At idle we were getting around 40 degrees at the vents and on the road, it would turn your fingers blue.

The W115 looks to have a pretty inefficient system with a small condenser which makes this stuff even more impressive.

They do have a disclaimer around seal compatibility on the website which you should read up on if you decide to use this stuff but overall, I think that it's a good product and would use it over the other snake oil alternatives.

#26 05-07-2010, 11:19 AM

So is the 406 a blend or a flammable?

I remember several years back at a family Fourth of July get together, my cousins husband, a commercial refrigeration guy, said he used 406 in some commercial coolers of some sort.