Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-08-2010, 09:42 PM
bgiovan's Avatar
Certifiable
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City, USA
Posts: 154
300SDL hard shift

'87 300SDL with 104,000 miles. No flaring but hard shifts (see whiplash) first to second and second to third. Third to 4th is tolerable. If I'm nailing it from a dead stop it will squwak the tires between first and second and almost squwak 2nd to 3rd.

Pretty sure this is vacuum related but looking for some been there done that. What would be a punchlist to replace in terms of vacuum bits and cables? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks!

__________________
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" - Thomas Edison-
1979 300SD
1975 450SL
2014 Ram Cummins Megacab (tow rig)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-08-2010, 11:32 PM
Registered Shadetree
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 676
All your answers are probably in here...

It's CRITICAL... how you set your transmission's vacuum system on your diesel MBZ...

This thread schooled me on our transmissions and now I can get 'em running well like I'm a pro. I've even amazed some of my pro mechanic friends -- all due to this very thread.
__________________
____________
1998 E300 +310,000K
1996 E300 +460,000K


Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-09-2010, 12:35 AM
general nuisance
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: des moines, ia
Posts: 442
Mine shifts hard because my vacuum control valve is shot, but that link and the articles in the prior post are very good reads.

What he talks about, taking the trans in for repair, frightens me because around here that's the type of "service" if you can call it that, that one typically gets, and I would prefer to diagnose problems myself instead of letting "newbs" take a shot at it without any decent background.

my .02

steve a
__________________
Steve A
92 W140 OM603
97 VW Jetta TDI
90 Passat variant TDI 6 speed MT
94 Chevy K1500 6.5TD
05 E320 CDI
+ others
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-09-2010, 08:36 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Most of the problems due to harsh shifts on the SDL are traced to a vacuum leak. The leak is usually related to the EGR system and/or the ARV system (if present) on the right side of the engine.

Find the vacuum pump and follow the small line out of the pump to the valve cover. You'll find a five way connector. The supply line and four consumers. Find the two lines that go to the right side of the vehicle and pull them from the five way connector. Plug those two ports (or get a three way "F" connector) and take it for a drive.

I'll bet your problem goes away.

If it doesn't, post again on this thread and I'll trace it further with you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-09-2010, 07:15 PM
bgiovan's Avatar
Certifiable
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City, USA
Posts: 154
Thanks guys. As a preventative I ordered up a new vacuum pump and a little while back got your "kit" Brian to remove the EGR for testing purposes. I'll review the thread links and hopefully the cumulative effect of dealing with a new VP and EGR will take care of it. If there are vacuum modules on the trans I should replace I want to try to get the whole shootin match done at one time. Now that the weather has turned I can actually spend some quality time outside with the car (although this last weekend sucked). Thanks again and will post back with progress.
__________________
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" - Thomas Edison-
1979 300SD
1975 450SL
2014 Ram Cummins Megacab (tow rig)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-09-2010, 07:54 PM
Registered Shadetree
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 676
I've done five of these transmissions (two 617 SDs and three 603 SDLs) and have managed to get all operating as if they were brand new. All had vacuum leak issues (usually multiple) in the engine bays. Never had to mess with vacuum modulators or controls integral to the transmissions themselves.

Listen to Brain Carlton and do what he says. He knows.
__________________
____________
1998 E300 +310,000K
1996 E300 +460,000K


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-09-2010, 09:28 PM
bgiovan's Avatar
Certifiable
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City, USA
Posts: 154
Intend to! I've read various threads on what vacuum lines can be removed permanently. Since I'm removing the EGR for testing purposes might I be able to take this opportunity to clean up the engine bay a tad?
__________________
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" - Thomas Edison-
1979 300SD
1975 450SL
2014 Ram Cummins Megacab (tow rig)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-09-2010, 09:32 PM
Registered Shadetree
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgiovan View Post
Intend to! I've read various threads on what vacuum lines can be removed permanently. Since I'm removing the EGR for testing purposes might I be able to take this opportunity to clean up the engine bay a tad?
I did it on my old '87. Cleans it up a good bit. It's on the list for my '86.

Like Brian said, just get rid of all the lines on the right side of the vehicle. Take of the EGR and block off the ports. Nice and neat.
__________________
____________
1998 E300 +310,000K
1996 E300 +460,000K


Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-10-2010, 11:57 PM
bgiovan's Avatar
Certifiable
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City, USA
Posts: 154
Will do Lux/Brian. The project is on this weekend's to-do list (now that Mother's Day servitude is complete!)
__________________
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" - Thomas Edison-
1979 300SD
1975 450SL
2014 Ram Cummins Megacab (tow rig)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-11-2010, 11:14 AM
69shovlhed's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sterling, VA.
Posts: 286
one small point in defense of dealer techs: MB gives NO training on the older trannys to their techs. only new vehicles are covered. this is very frustrating to the techs as well as customers.
__________________
1984 300TD "MAX" 303K+ still going...
fast '70 Chevelle 200k+
home built Shovelhead chopper
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-16-2010, 09:52 PM
bgiovan's Avatar
Certifiable
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City, USA
Posts: 154
Reporting back...

Per Brian's advice removed the two vacuum lines at the "5" junction tee off the VP and inserted the wondertool "golf tees" into the junction. It is much better but still a prounounced clunk between 1 & 2 and to a lesser extent 2 & 3. I nailed it from a dead stop and was still able to squawk the tires between 1 & 2 (cool when I was 19, not so cool at 46). Any further suggestions on smoothing out these shifts. Could the history of these hard shifts (I've only had the car since December, it has 104k original on it as of today) have bullocksed the diff?

TIA
__________________
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" - Thomas Edison-
1979 300SD
1975 450SL
2014 Ram Cummins Megacab (tow rig)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-16-2010, 10:45 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgiovan View Post
Reporting back...

Per Brian's advice removed the two vacuum lines at the "5" junction tee off the VP and inserted the wondertool "golf tees" into the junction. It is much better but still a prounounced clunk between 1 & 2 and to a lesser extent 2 & 3. I nailed it from a dead stop and was still able to squawk the tires between 1 & 2 (cool when I was 19, not so cool at 46). Any further suggestions on smoothing out these shifts. Could the history of these hard shifts (I've only had the car since December, it has 104k original on it as of today) have bullocksed the diff?

TIA
The next thing to check is the level of the transmission fluid. On that vehicle, it will shift too hard if the level is just slightly below the low mark.

Make sure to check it very hot with the vehicle running in neutral. It's not easy to make that check due to fluid accumulating on the stick. If you add any...........be very careful...........a little bit goes a long way. If you overfill it, you'll be there all day getting it back down. And, no, you cannot leave it overfilled..............
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:25 PM
Registered Shadetree
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgiovan View Post
Reporting back...

Per Brian's advice removed the two vacuum lines at the "5" junction tee off the VP and inserted the wondertool "golf tees" into the junction. It is much better but still a prounounced clunk between 1 & 2 and to a lesser extent 2 & 3. I nailed it from a dead stop and was still able to squawk the tires between 1 & 2 (cool when I was 19, not so cool at 46). Any further suggestions on smoothing out these shifts. Could the history of these hard shifts (I've only had the car since December, it has 104k original on it as of today) have bullocksed the diff?

TIA
I bet you still have leaking (or insufficient) vacuum somewhere. Even though your car has relatively low miles, the rubber and plastic parts that make up the vacuum distribution system are quite old and most likely have become dry and brittle. There are a lot of parts to the system from which a leak may develop. Now I might be wrong, but that's what it sounds like to me.

If you really want to get that great car shifting like it should, you need to read that thread I posted well (or search for one of Brian's 603 vacuum help threads), then read it again, then get a mightyvac. I don't know of any other way to do it.

Not trying to be a hard ass or a dick, it's just that I've banged my head enough on these cars that I've figured out to whom to listen on the forum for the proper advice.

(For instance, I bought my '86 two years ago for $350 with a toasted transmission, hard brake pedal, very loud vibration from the engine. I bought that car because I knew from my experience with these cars and the priceless advice found here on the forum that the tranny was indeed toasted, the brakes were a simple vacuum problem and the vibration was shot motor mounts. Last month I finally got around to swapping out the transmission, replaced the motor mounts and fixed the vacuum leak that was affecting the brakes. I then found that the car had very low power. I knew, once again from lots of research on this forum, that it was a clogged switchover valve. Bypassed that and she went like a scalded kitty-cat.)

Oh, and FWIW -- my '82, '86 and '87 all slammed very hard changing gears and probably had been for many, many years. Once I got all the vacuum leaks sorted out, the transmissions shifted like butter and the differentials were fine.
__________________
____________
1998 E300 +310,000K
1996 E300 +460,000K


Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-23-2011, 12:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 8
Brian,

Any concerns keeping this configuration - with the two tees plugging the right two consuming vacuum lines? Will damage/throw anything? Im shifting like a dream and have power to boot!

EGR is for emissions, correct? I seem to look better out the rear after this adjustment.

THanks again

PC
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-23-2011, 11:55 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcharron1983 View Post
Brian,

Any concerns keeping this configuration - with the two tees plugging the right two consuming vacuum lines? Will damage/throw anything? Im shifting like a dream and have power to boot!

EGR is for emissions, correct? I seem to look better out the rear after this adjustment.

THanks again

PC

No concerns at all. I like the three way F connector as a permanent fix. The golf tees look a bit ridiculous other than for testing purposes.

EGR is used to control NOx emissions. It doesn't affect the smoke.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page