Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-22-2010, 10:08 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Das Sturm Uberdoktor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Palm Springs, CA.
Posts: 2,670
617 Non-Turbo Head on 617.951???

Dad needs a head for his 617.951 and we haven't found a good one around here as of yet. Today, we went to the local Pik-N-Pull in Visalia, California because they had a 50% off weekend...

Today, we pulled a head from a non-turbo 1976 123 chassis that looks to be in fantasic condition. Aside from obvious differences with its turbo counterpart, like the 'recessed' pockets in the intake valves (to reduce compression perhaps?) and the flat-on-the-bottom prechambers, we saw no other significant differences. I'm curious if we could use this on his 617.951, in the long-term, and wanted to ask the forum members for advice.

By the way, the head bears a '617' casting number.

Keep this in mind....

Years ago, when I was working for a Mercedes-Benz dealer in Visalia, California, a customer cracked a head on a 617.950 and they brought us a non-turbo head, just to 'patch it up' and get it running again. The service manager had them sign an 'As-Is' disclaimer before we started work and I do remember shimming up the pre-chambers to gain piston clearance, but it ran fine. I do not know if there could have been any long term complications, but the head bolted up and the car did run.

I would sincerely appreciate any advice you folks may have to offer. Thanks very much for your time and expertise...Robert

__________________
Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-22-2010, 10:33 PM
Registered Hack
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,625
I would change out the exhaust valves and seat them.

the prechambers are different as well.


I would also be concerned about the cam timing, it would be optimal if you kept the turbo cam.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-22-2010, 10:36 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Das Sturm Uberdoktor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Palm Springs, CA.
Posts: 2,670
I use the '05' cma in everything and we have all new valves. IIRC, the heads are the same casting number, but the turbo prechambers are bigger by about 1.0mm...

P.S. I have used the '05' cam successfully in many non-turbo applications...Robert
__________________
Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-22-2010, 10:57 PM
Registered Hack
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,625
I don't doubt that the non-turbo cam would work... but the scavenging is not maximized.

I was under the impression that the '05' had some changes in timing.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-23-2010, 12:32 AM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 31,169
Does the Non-Turbo Cylinder Head also have the Sodium Filled Exhaust Valves?
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-23-2010, 01:12 AM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,353
no, but the sodium valves from a turbo head will slide right in.
of course, the glow plug holes are large thread for the loop plugs, so you'll have to buy the pencils with the large threads... pricey.
it's gotta be easier to find a turbo head. or at least an 80+ year that has pencil plugs...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-23-2010, 06:16 AM
Dieselkraut23's Avatar
w123 ein super auto
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 493
anyone get any info on if the euro non turbo heads had a different "high speed" as oi have heard more than once? this would be 82'-86' non turbo 300ds
__________________
Wie lange wird Ihr Auto leben?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-23-2010, 07:11 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 35,275
I doubt the euro heads are different. The only difference I am aware of is in the pump.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-23-2010, 05:41 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Das Sturm Uberdoktor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Palm Springs, CA.
Posts: 2,670
So, the early head, like this one in question being a 1977, has the early style 'big' glow plugs?????
__________________
Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-23-2010, 07:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,269
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
no, but the sodium valves from a turbo head will slide right in.
of course, the glow plug holes are large thread for the loop plugs, so you'll have to buy the pencils with the large threads... pricey.
it's gotta be easier to find a turbo head. or at least an 80+ year that has pencil plugs...
Mine has threads for pencil style glow plugs and it's a NA.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-23-2010, 10:22 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 35,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
So, the early head, like this one in question being a 1977, has the early style 'big' glow plugs?????
I don't know but I would say a good chance. Probably can look at parts here and cross reference it.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-23-2010, 11:38 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by colincoon View Post
Mine has threads for pencil style glow plugs and it's a NA.
I didn't say it had to be a turbo head, I said it has to be a head from an 80 and up, or an SD. 79 and older N/A motors had the large glow plugs.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-26-2010, 05:05 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Das Sturm Uberdoktor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Palm Springs, CA.
Posts: 2,670
Ok....

The pre-chambers from the 617.951 Turbo slide right in. So did the Turbo valves. We are using the 'flat' intake valves and not the '300D' intakes with the 'cup' in them.

Dad picked up a set of 18mm glow plugs from ********e AZ that work with the late controller, used an '05' cam/follower/springs and the rest is history!!!

__________________
Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page