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View Poll Results: choose wisely...Auto or Manual?
Auto 5 10.00%
Manual 45 90.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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  #46  
Old 06-03-2010, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cirrusman View Post
It never felt annoying to me to drive a manual tranny in traffic or hilly terrain... Once you get used to it, your brain does all the shifting kind of automatically, and unless you focus your attention to it, it kind of happens by itself... just like riding a bike.
Now hold on there, I'm an "old" guy and I would find driving around a "hilly' city annoying with a manual tranny, you guys must live out on the prairie

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  #47  
Old 06-03-2010, 07:11 PM
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I drove a manual in London for years with no problems. It's pretty much the same as driving an automatic in traffic except you use the clutch for crawling instead of the brake pedal.

You really can't beat an Auto in a big V8 MB. People who drive Corrolla's and Civic's with autos must be miserable though.
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  #48  
Old 06-04-2010, 07:53 AM
LarryBible
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I have a medium size (300E) MB with a manual and I wouldn't want one any other way. In Europe, even S class cars with manuals are common. I had the pleasure of driving a 126 gasser with a five speed and it was WONDERFUL!

Either you're a stick shift lover or you're not. A true stick shift lover wants a stick in anything and everything he drives. That's me.

As for hills, I normally drive on relatively flat roads, but I have indeed driven a stick a good little bit in San Francisco. My only regret was that I could only go DOWN Lombard Street, not up. Starting from a Stop sign or red light on the steepest of hills I can start well without rolling back AT ALL! Again, practice makes perfect.
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  #49  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post

You have my curiosity fired up now. How old are you?

I was born the year The US Agriculture Department tried making ketchup a school lunch vegetable.

Also when BMW develops the first in car computer to measure engine performance.
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  #50  
Old 06-08-2010, 03:46 AM
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Classic!

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Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
You just need more practice with a stick. Do you put the lever in neutral when stopped?

I expect that I EASILY have a million and a half miles driving stick shift vehicles. After you reach a certain experience level, it's as natural as breathing and you never even think about it anymore. I've driven tens of thousands of miles in stop, move a car length forward, stop...... I never even think about it.

I have enough stick experience that when a friend of mine invited me fishing with him a few years ago, I drove his GMC five speed truck and boat trailer that I was totally unfamiliar with up a steep ramp and parked it then walked to the boat. He commented that he was very impressed because I didn't slip the clutch too much and didn't roll backwards even an inch.

My level of experience with a clutch reminds me of a friends Dad who was in his eighties. My friend was giving me flying lessons in his Aeronca Champ, an old stick control tail dragger. It takes lots of experience to land one of these gracefully. There was a certain air speed to maintain on landing. His Dad, probably a 20,000 hour pilot took it up and flew it around while we watched. He brought it in with the most beautiful three point landing anyone could ever hope for. He taxied over to us and was getting out and I asked him what speed he used for landing. He said, "I have no idea, I just brought it in and flared it out."

There is no substitute for practice and experience. The skill of driving a stick shift is NOTHING as sophisticated as the old man's flying skill, but my clutch skill is at the same level within the task as his flying skill.

Practice makes perfect.
Errr thanks - I'm English:- I'm very much used to driving a manual and I have done so for years and years. In Europe on the whole there aren't many automatics sold and in the UK there is even a difference between an automatic and manual license. The automatic one is restricted - you are not allowed to drive a manual.

I don't have any technical difficulties - I'm just lazy. I don't see why cars don't just drive themselves. In fact if I were rich enough I'd still fix my own cars (and I'd have more than Jay Leno) but I'd have a driver!
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  #51  
Old 06-08-2010, 04:01 AM
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Theory

Great conversation dropnosky and LarryBible!

I have a theory about the speed at which people learn clutch control:-

I think it is due to hills. I learnt to drive in East Anglia where it is flat. Within two months of passing my test I moved to Devon where it is hilly. For the first week I struggled! However, after that I picked up clutch control and now shift smoother than most automatics...

I'm now living in the Netherlands where they say that the driving test is harder than the one I took in the UK (but they would wouldn't they). However, having seen how most people drive here they have no understanding what so ever about clutch control - here it is flatter than flat. For example for the first day of snow here you are better off staying at home. It is not uncommon to see people shifting through the gears trying to get traction.
Once I refused to help to push one chap in a BMW who was doing an indicated 100kph whilst standing still. It would have helped the traffic flow - but really what a total %%%^^%%% head.

By the way automatic gearbox drivers do you know how to get traction in snow or on slippy surfaces to stop the same effect?
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  #52  
Old 06-08-2010, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Army View Post
Errr thanks - I'm English:- I'm very much used to driving a manual and I have done so for years and years. In Europe on the whole there aren't many automatics sold and in the UK there is even a difference between an automatic and manual license. The automatic one is restricted - you are not allowed to drive a manual.

I don't have any technical difficulties - I'm just lazy. I don't see why cars don't just drive themselves. In fact if I were rich enough I'd still fix my own cars (and I'd have more than Jay Leno) but I'd have a driver!

Quite an honest post. Very few people in the US are willing to admit that their desire for an automatic is out of laziness.
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  #53  
Old 06-08-2010, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Army View Post
Great conversation dropnosky and LarryBible!

I have a theory about the speed at which people learn clutch control:-

I think it is due to hills. I learnt to drive in East Anglia where it is flat. Within two months of passing my test I moved to Devon where it is hilly. For the first week I struggled! However, after that I picked up clutch control and now shift smoother than most automatics...

I'm now living in the Netherlands where they say that the driving test is harder than the one I took in the UK (but they would wouldn't they). However, having seen how most people drive here they have no understanding what so ever about clutch control - here it is flatter than flat. For example for the first day of snow here you are better off staying at home. It is not uncommon to see people shifting through the gears trying to get traction.
Once I refused to help to push one chap in a BMW who was doing an indicated 100kph whilst standing still. It would have helped the traffic flow - but really what a total %%%^^%%% head.

By the way automatic gearbox drivers do you know how to get traction in snow or on slippy surfaces to stop the same effect?

One of the things I love about Europe is all the stick shift cars. I was in a small town near Zurich one time about ten years ago sitting at a second story window killing time and looking out at an intersection where numerous cars were stopping, waiting for traffic to clear before turning left. I must have observed every car for about fifteen minutes during rush hour. During that whole time, I never saw a car with an automatic. My kind of automotive world.

Also about that time I went to the old Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart when it was next door to a tall MB office building. Parked in front of the museum were the executives cars. Plenty of big AMG's and other apparantly one off vehicles. Almost every one had a stick shift. My kind of automotive world.
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  #54  
Old 06-08-2010, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Army View Post
The automatic one is restricted - you are not allowed to drive a manual.
HAH they should restrict it further, if you can't drive a stick you shouldnt be allowed to drive at all. I followed some dip**** home for 20 miles last night with his brake lights on most of the time.
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  #55  
Old 06-08-2010, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Army View Post
Great conversation dropnosky and LarryBible!

I have a theory about the speed at which people learn clutch control:-

I think it is due to hills. I learnt to drive in East Anglia where it is flat. Within two months of passing my test I moved to Devon where it is hilly. For the first week I struggled! However, after that I picked up clutch control and now shift smoother than most automatics...

I'm now living in the Netherlands where they say that the driving test is harder than the one I took in the UK (but they would wouldn't they). However, having seen how most people drive here they have no understanding what so ever about clutch control - here it is flatter than flat. For example for the first day of snow here you are better off staying at home. It is not uncommon to see people shifting through the gears trying to get traction.
Once I refused to help to push one chap in a BMW who was doing an indicated 100kph whilst standing still. It would have helped the traffic flow - but really what a total %%%^^%%% head.

By the way automatic gearbox drivers do you know how to get traction in snow or on slippy surfaces to stop the same effect?
This makes sense, I didn't really learn clutch control until I moved into an apartment with no parking space on the side of a fairly steep hill. After a few weeks of trying to parallel park and creeping around looking for a space in the immediate area, I became far more skilled on the nuances of the clutch. At the expense of a few bumps though.
I also finally learned how to effectively use my parking brake along with the clutch to help application on really steep areas and no room.
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  #56  
Old 06-08-2010, 09:14 AM
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That's part of the UK test!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
This makes sense, I didn't really learn clutch control until I moved into an apartment with no parking space on the side of a fairly steep hill. After a few weeks of trying to parallel park and creeping around looking for a space in the immediate area, I became far more skilled on the nuances of the clutch. At the expense of a few bumps though.
I also finally learned how to effectively use my parking brake along with the clutch to help application on really steep areas and no room.
That's part of the UK test. Handbrake on a hill - the hill start. There's a bit of skill in it once you know how, but once you've had some practice...

Another thing that should be taught - which requires an additional test here in the Netherlands - is driving and reversing with a trailer.

My (Dutch) neighbour has this down to a fine art with his caravan - it is almost magic to see him reverse round a 90 degree bend with his caravan in one go - he has a clearance of about 3 inches on either side (and uses his caravan twice a year if that). I wish I could do that.
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  #57  
Old 06-08-2010, 09:19 AM
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Yes - we don't have many autos...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
One of the things I love about Europe is all the stick shift cars. I was in a small town near Zurich one time about ten years ago sitting at a second story window killing time and looking out at an intersection where numerous cars were stopping, waiting for traffic to clear before turning left. I must have observed every car for about fifteen minutes during rush hour. During that whole time, I never saw a car with an automatic. My kind of automotive world.

Also about that time I went to the old Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart when it was next door to a tall MB office building. Parked in front of the museum were the executives cars. Plenty of big AMG's and other apparantly one off vehicles. Almost every one had a stick shift. My kind of automotive world.
If you ever get the chance to come back and look at all of the manual transmissions don't miss this museum

http://www.zeppelin-museum.de/

Not only is it great for the Zeppelins but it has a REAL Maybach in the front lobby - now that's my kind of automotive world!
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  #58  
Old 06-08-2010, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Army View Post
That's part of the UK test. Handbrake on a hill - the hill start. There's a bit of skill in it once you know how, but once you've had some practice...

Another thing that should be taught - which requires an additional test here in the Netherlands - is driving and reversing with a trailer.

My (Dutch) neighbour has this down to a fine art with his caravan - it is almost magic to see him reverse round a 90 degree bend with his caravan in one go - he has a clearance of about 3 inches on either side (and uses his caravan twice a year if that). I wish I could do that.
Ha ha, there are plenty of people incapable of simply reversing their own car, that a trailer adds a whole new degree of fun!
Here if you can make or buy them up to an enormous length, you just have to register them and start driving! I made a whole bunch of small trailers for my car for various applications. I thought I was good reversing and parking them perfectly with a benz in tight quarters, but one day, I tried to back one in behind a panel truck and I suddenly realized that the only time I could see the trailer at all was when it was within 1 foot of jackknifing into the truck.
My opinion is that the hardest trailer combination to maneuver is large vehicle and small trailer. For a test they should make you tow a jet ski around and back it down a boat ramp while driving a full size van. With big double and triple axle trailers, they don't jack knife so easily and you can at least see them.

All these things should be on a drivers test. Unfortunately, testing seems to be a little lax here. My younger cousin was not even required to back into a space, she just had to pull in straight.
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  #59  
Old 06-08-2010, 10:12 AM
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I'd take a manual over an autmatic anyday. Manual transmission make you a better driver because you have to be more cordinated. I drove in NYC traffic for many years with a manual (while eating a burger and softdrink) and it has become second nature for me.
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  #60  
Old 06-08-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
Once I refused to help to push one chap in a BMW who was doing an indicated 100kph whilst standing still. It would have helped the traffic flow - but really what a total %%%^^%%% head.

By the way automatic gearbox drivers do you know how to get traction in snow or on slippy surfaces to stop the same effect?
You go back and forth, kind of having a feeling of the groove that the tires make in the snow; when the tire that has traction starts slipping you stop, go back until it starts slipping, then you go forward. Rinse and repeat until you're off. Over here in Utah it gets mighty snowy during the winter... I've got stuck plenty of times but never had to ask anybody to push me out. I wish I had positraction in my cars though...

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