Originally Posted by LarryBible
(Post 2488810)
Okay, I've gone through this in detail AT LEAST fifty times on this forum, but what's one more for someone who doesn't care to spend the time doing a search?
There are so many junk refrigerants that I don't even pretend to try and keep up with all of them. They ALL fit into one or both of the following two categories:
FLAMMABLE - There are many who have no trouble running flammable refrigerant. They justify it away in all different ways such as "well there is a full tank of diesel fuel behind the seat, isn't that flammable?" In spite of how you might justify it, as of a few years ago they were outlawed in 18 states, it's probably more now. Many of them have the side benefit of poor lubricant circulation.
BLEND - Blends are just what is implied, they contain two or more different refrigerants. The problem with these is that they leak at different rates. Since one of the elements purpose is to circulate the lubricant, what if that is the element that leaks out first? So not only do you run the risk of having no lubricant circulating, but if you develop a leak, the only way to get it back in shape is to RECOVER the remeaining refrigerant and start again from scratch. RECOVERING refrigerant? Oh yeah, Recovering refrigerant..........
Federal Law requires installation of the correct fittings that correspond with the particular refrigerant contained in the system. That means that the number of unique fitting types equals the number of junk refrigerants out there plus two. I don't care if you follow Federal Law or not. That's for you and your attorney to deal with. What YOU should care about is what is going to happen when it comes time that you or someone else needs to have the system repaired.
When that time comes, it will be very difficult if not impossible to find someone with a recovery machine set up to recover your particular variety of junk refrigerant. Even if someone did have a machine with correct fittings, if it's a blend they will not recover it because it will not be in correct proportions thus will contaminate the refrigerant in their recovery tank.
No one will recover junk refrigerants into their legitimate refrigerant tanks because it will contaminate the other refrigerant in their tank. This not only causes the loss of that refrigerant but they also get hit with a STEEP disposal charge.
Now, with the above Preface we can get to your questions:
1. I've always been very curious about trying new things like Cocaine and Crack. I've always wondered what it would be like, but I've managed to allow common sense to overcome curiosity. I like trying new things too, but there must be a compelling reason to do so in my case.
2. I have several cans of Freeze 12 that someone gave me, but I've never had any desire to use the stuff. For the reason why, read what I wrote above.
3. By going online, paying $15 and spending about an hour taking an open book test, you can get an EPA 609 certification so that you can legally buy all the R12 you want. You can find it on ebay for as little as $15 a can.
Your last questions that were not numbered:
Read what I wrote above. LUBRICATION is NECESSARY for long compressor life. Correct pressure characteristics for the compressor design are ALSO necessary for compressor life. When a blend is disturbed it will not be flowing lubrication as it should. Many flammables also do not flow lubricant as well as the conventional refrigerants with the proper oil for that refrigerant.
I call it junk refrigerant because of what I wrote above. I have two Recovery/Recycle machines, one set up for R12 and the other for R134a. I have no desire to recover refrigerants other than those two. That means I can rarely use them unless I KNOW FOR A FACT that the correct refrigerant is in a system. That means I can't help people with their a/c in many cases.
I also call them junk refrigerants because of the common cause of their use being poor lubrication thus wearing out at best, and destroying at worst, the compressors of the systems they are used in. When a compressor is destroyed, that means that the ENTIRE system must be completely and thoroughly flushed to prevent the debris left over from compressor destruction from destroying the new compressor.
Okay, you asked for facts instead of BS. I'm not in the habit of dealing with BS. The BS is the fact that we have to deal with all these junk refrigerants in the first place. I'm not responsible for that fact. If you have a problem with this being the case, you don't need to talk to me, you need to talk to Al Gore. I wouldn't bother though, he's too buisy with his latest illegitimate Mistress to spend any time accounting to you or I.
It's your a/c system, your money, your risk of a short lived system and your risk of Federal Law violation. It's totally up to you what you do. I started learning about auto a/c systems at the age of about 8, in 1957 in my Dad's Independent Shop when he started installing and repairing auto a/c systems. I have followed the developments, refrigerant changes, etc during that 53 year time frame. That's where I learned what I have written above. I share this information as best I can on this forum. You are free to do with it as you please. If you want to call it BS, and tell me that I am FULL of BS, then that's your choice as well.
Best of luck to you.
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