Where Do I Sign Up To Join The 5 Speed Club? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Squiggle Dog · #31 08-07-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickofoxford

Yeah that's the worst one.. I remember pulling a trans from a 300TD and we would up having to pull the entire motor and trans out because one of the starter allen bolts was stripped. After that I never pulled a tranny out of a 300D/TD without pulling the motor with it

There is a 240D manual in the local yard here, if you do decide to go with a 240 flywheel. I wouldn't mind getting/shipping it for you.

I've got a 220D manual flywheel. It's rusty, though. From what I've heard using a 300D flywheel is nearly a must with a turbo + 5 speed. Here's hoping I can find one at the same time I can afford it!

Oh, and removing that top bolt (both of them, actually) from an inline 6 cylinder engine that nearly touches the firewall requires being very agile and in pain.

Squiggle Dog · #32 08-07-2010, 06:53 PM

I've been wondering if the propeller shaft would be worth getting. It's a different body style than my car, though. Then I thought about maybe wanting the rear axle but once again, it's a different body style car with a different weight and engine type. And, I'm broke after purchasing the transmission!

Fattyman · #33 08-07-2010, 06:57 PM

The shaft would be worth getting since it's probably going to be shorter than a 4 speed unit. The getrag 5 speeds are longer than the 4 speeds. Does the starter go in the same spot as it does on a diesel? I thought the diesels were different?

Squiggle Dog · #34 08-07-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fattyman

The shaft would be worth getting since it's probably going to be shorter than a 4 speed unit. The getrag 5 speeds are longer than the 4 speeds. Does the starter go in the same spot as it does on a diesel? I thought the diesels were different?

The car I pulled the transmission from is a W123 and my car is a W116, so it may not work in my car anyway, but who knows... The diesels and gas engines have the starters in the same spot and in fact a diesel starter will fit on a gas engine. It's the mid-1980s and newer cars when they changed the side the starter was on.

Billybob · #35 08-07-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

I've been wondering if the propeller shaft would be worth getting. It's a different body style than my car, though. Then I thought about maybe wanting the rear axle but once again, it's a different body style car with a different weight and engine type. And, I'm broke after purchasing the transmission!

The shaft would be worth getting for a 123 installation, a 116 installation will require a drive shaft that is considerably longer than one from a 123 installation. The 123 shaft would probably be very saleable to someone who is doing a 5 speed instal and it could offset your costs.

Your 116 auto shaft may be quite close as the 717.400 is close to the length of the auto tranny.

Squiggle Dog · #36 08-07-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

The shaft would be worth getting for a 123 installation, a 116 installation will require a drive shaft that is considerably longer than one from a 123 installation. The 123 shaft would probably be very saleable to someone who is doing a 5 speed instal and it could offset your costs.

Your 116 auto shaft may be quite close as the 717.400 is close to the length of the auto tranny.

I'll consider picking it up. You're right, the 717 is very close to the length of an automatic.

I went back to Pull-A-Part today and got the adapter plate from the 280E. It bolted up perfectly to my spare 617 engine and then the 717 transmission bolted up perfectly to the adapter plate. The transmission fits like it was made for it! It turns out that the 280E flywheel has the same bolt pattern. It looked wimpier (thinner) than my 220D flywheel so I didn't get it.

I am excited about having a 717 bolted to a 617, or a 5 speed transmission bolted to a 5 cylinder engine!

daw_two · #37 08-07-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

Oh, and removing that top bolt (both of them, actually) from an inline 6 cylinder engine that nearly touches the firewall requires being very agile and in pain.

Is there a special wrench to do that? I have some awkward wrenching to do like that ahead.

daw_two · #38 08-07-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickofoxford

Awesome find BTW! I thought finding a solid aluminum body 4 speed was good, you took the cake man! Best of luck with it.

Yeah, I thought finding the lot of NOS parts in Atlanta was the bomb....but nothing like what Squiggle Dog scored.

charmalu · #39 08-08-2010, 12:02 AM

Maybe Iam missing something here. Is the 280 adaptor plate all that much different, than the adaptor plate for the 617?

I swaped a 240D 4 spd into my 85 cali 300D. removed the automatic, bolted up the 240D FW, clutch etc... and used the same auto adaptor plate. i had the manual adaptor plate, and not a nickles worth of difference.

Also the 85 300D has the tach pick up on the adaptor plate, and was lucky i didn`t have to change it.

So is the manual 5 speed bolt pattern the same as the 240 4-spd? should be I would think. so what is the fuss about getting the 280 plate?

Just asking.

Charlie

Billybob · #40 08-08-2010, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daw_two

Is there a special wrench to do that? I have some awkward wrenching to do like that ahead.

The best wayI've found is a 3/8" drive 6-point built in swivel socket, you can get a new one from Sears for about $8, that way the swivel joint is tight and stiff. Then you need about 30" of extentions, I use 1/2" with two or three 6" long ones at the tool end. With the shorter extentions you can get an arc rather than a straight line that one long extention will form. A 1/2" -3/8" adapter and a 1/2" ratchet, swivel head makes it easier. From undermeath drop the tranny cross member so the tranny hangs, I get the stick of extensions with the socket at the end onto the bolt head first and then pop the rachet in place. You can get a hand up along side the tranny and hold the thing in position while you work the ratchet.

The two top bolts are in between the cast webs of the bellhousing so its harest to get the tool in place, using a tight swivel makes it easier to get a little angle set up between the socket and the extention in order to get the socket on the bolt head easier. Try to get the top two bolts first that way there is no force on them as you remove them, usually once they are broken free they can be turned out just using the extentions and socket without the ratchet.

Squiggle Dog · #41 08-08-2010, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

Maybe Iam missing something here. Is the 280 adaptor plate all that much different, than the adaptor plate for the 617?

I swaped a 240D 4 spd into my 85 cali 300D. removed the automatic, bolted up the 240D FW, clutch etc... and used the same auto adaptor plate. i had the manual adaptor plate, and not a nickles worth of difference.

Also the 85 300D has the tach pick up on the adaptor plate, and was lucky i didn`t have to change it.

So is the manual 5 speed bolt pattern the same as the 240 4-spd? should be I would think. so what is the fuss about getting the 280 plate?

Just asking.

Charlie

Yes, the 280 adapter plate is different from the 617 plate. The 617 plate is the same as the 220D, 240D, 300D, 300SD, etc. The 5 speed uses a different adapter plate than the 4 speed.

The 5 speed transmission has 2 guide pins that get in the way when installing it in the 617 adapter plate (won't allow it to seat). The bolt holes on the left side don't line up either, but the top, bottom, and starter holes line up. I could have made the 617 adapter plate work if I removed the guide pins on the transmission and left a couple holes without bolts. But the 280 adapter plate works perfectly on both ends.

Squiggle Dog · #42 08-08-2010, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

The best wayI've found is a 3/8" drive 6-point built in swivel socket, you can get a new one from Sears for about $8, that way the swivel joint is tight and stiff. Then you need about 30" of extentions, I use 1/2" with two or three 6" long ones at the tool end. With the shorter extentions you can get an arc rather than a straight line that one long extention will form. A 1/2" -3/8" adapter and a 1/2" ratchet, swivel head makes it easier. From undermeath drop the tranny cross member so the tranny hangs, I get the stick of extensions with the socket at the end onto the bolt head first and then pop the rachet in place. You can get a hand up along side the tranny and hold the thing in position while you work the ratchet.

The two top bolts are in between the cast webs of the bellhousing so its harest to get the tool in place, using a tight swivel makes it easier to get a little angle set up between the socket and the extention in order to get the socket on the bolt head easier. Try to get the top two bolts first that way there is no force on them as you remove them, usually once they are broken free they can be turned out just using the extentions and socket without the ratchet.

What he said. No real easy way of doing it in the car. Try removing an automatic sometime. The bolt heads are recessed to make it impossible to remove the transmission unless the engine is pulled. Even the service manual says it is not possible to pull the automatic transmission without pulling the engine!

charmalu · #43 08-08-2010, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

Yes, the 280 adapter plate is different from the 617 plate. The 617 plate is the same as the 220D, 240D, 300D, 300SD, etc. The 5 speed uses a different adapter plate than the 4 speed.

The 5 speed transmission has 2 guide pins that get in the way when installing it in the 617 adapter plate (won't allow it to seat). The bolt holes on the left side don't line up either, but the top, bottom, and starter holes line up. I could have made the 617 adapter plate work if I removed the guide pins on the transmission and left a couple holes without bolts. But the 280 adapter plate works perfectly on both ends.

OK, thanks. you mentioned it up above, and it didn`t quite sink in then

.

so then I guess the 280 plate, and if I found a 123 with a 5 spd, it would have the same plate then. I was always under the impression the 5 spd would just bolt up to a 617 w/o swapping plates. good to know.

Charlie

Squiggle Dog · #44 08-08-2010, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

OK, thanks. you mentioned it up above, and it didn`t quite sink in then

.

so then I guess the 280 plate, and if I found a 123 with a 5 spd, it would have the same plate then. I was always under the impression the 5 spd would just bolt up to a 617 w/o swapping plates. good to know.

Charlie

I am guessing any W123 with a 5 speed (even a diesel) will have a 280 plate (R 110 XXX XX XX). Unless the 5 speed for the diesel engines has a different housing, but I don't think so.

As for 4 speeds, they should be interchangeable with the 115 part number adapter plate. Even the 4 speeds from the fintails bolt up to the 617 fine (I discovered this when I installed a 617 into a fintail before giving up on the car due to rust).

Sev · #45 08-08-2010, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

The shaft would be worth getting for a 123 installation, a 116 installation will require a drive shaft that is considerably longer than one from a 123 installation. The 123 shaft would probably be very saleable to someone who is doing a 5 speed instal and it could offset your costs.

Your 116 auto shaft may be quite close as the 717.400 is close to the length of the auto tranny.

on the w201 chassis, the getrag tranny was a different length than other manual or auto trans models. the rear half of the prop shaft is the same length, but the front half is a few inches longer because the getrag tranny is shorter than the regular manual. this also means that the shifter linkages are a different length. in other words, if putting this tranny into a w123, you will need the front half of the prop shaft and linkages as well.