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  #61  
Old 08-08-2010, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
What he said. No real easy way of doing it in the car. Try removing an automatic sometime. The bolt heads are recessed to make it impossible to remove the transmission unless the engine is pulled. Even the service manual says it is not possible to pull the automatic transmission without pulling the engine!
You could take a 18 volt drill with metal cutting holesaw and sit in the seat -make access holes and do it in relative compfort instead ow wallowing in the dirt-Ide take a ribbon cutting air chisel chisel and a hammer too-mabe also a saws all.
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  #62  
Old 08-08-2010, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
The problem for the OP is not having a driveshaft shortened it is having one lengthend. He doesn't have the luxury of as 123 owners do an overly long 240D manual driveshaft to start with. It's possible to find a driveshaft longer than what he needs from a Euro126 with a four speed manual but I've only ever seen a single one in probably many humdreds of boneyard visits!

Shortening is a much simpler alteration as it only simply removing the end section, then the unnessessary section of pipe to bring things to the proper length, and finally reattachment of the end piece. Carefully done keeping the positioning of the parts intact you can probably get by without even having to balance anything afterwards.

Lengthening involves somehow getting both end pieces square and true ont he appropriate length of straight, true and nominally balanced center pipe and having everything function as a balanced unit in the end, a much more difficult proposition.

It will be interesting to watch how this works out for the OP.

you could use the rear section from a donor 123 shorten it and weld on the middle joint from the front section of said donor 123 front section, then use the 116 rear section. then it would be a $90 shortening job
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  #63  
Old 08-08-2010, 09:47 PM
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heres a gasser with 5spd, its at parts car price right now for anyone looking to swap

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-200-Series-W123-1984-Mercedes-230E-5-Speed-Manual-Transmission-Euro-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ220647660250QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)
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  #64  
Old 08-08-2010, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by panZZer View Post
You could take a 18 volt drill with metal cutting holesaw and sit in the seat -make access holes and do it in relative compfort instead ow wallowing in the dirt-Ide take a ribbon cutting air chisel chisel and a hammer too-mabe also a saws all.
That might work at Pull-A-Part if its battery powered. I can't remember if they allow power tools in there. Good idea, though.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 343,000+ Miles
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  #65  
Old 08-08-2010, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by lutzTD View Post
you could use the rear section from a donor 123 shorten it and weld on the middle joint from the front section of said donor 123 front section, then use the 116 rear section. then it would be a $90 shortening job
That sounds like a good idea.

I can't believe there aren't more bids on that car. That velour interior looks cushy.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 343,000+ Miles
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  #66  
Old 08-08-2010, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lutzTD View Post
The tranny on that car has the starter on the drivers side lest anyone think it can be used on a 615/616/617 application, it has a 102 gas engine same as a 190E 2.3.

Drive shaft might be usable as it's bound to be longer than most, although the trilobe at the end is sized different than the one the 717.400 it needs to mate to.
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  #67  
Old 08-08-2010, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by charmalu View Post
Maybe Iam missing something here. Is the 280 adaptor plate all that much different, than the adaptor plate for the 617?

I swaped a 240D 4 spd into my 85 cali 300D. removed the automatic, bolted up the 240D FW, clutch etc... and used the same auto adaptor plate. i had the manual adaptor plate, and not a nickles worth of difference.

Also the 85 300D has the tach pick up on the adaptor plate, and was lucky i didn`t have to change it.

So is the manual 5 speed bolt pattern the same as the 240 4-spd? should be I would think. so what is the fuss about getting the 280 plate?

Just asking.

Charlie
I assumed they were both the same. The guy that I got my 280 from bought it for the 5 speed. He put in a 240 4 speed and had the prop shaft lengthened. I assume he used the trans from the 240 and it bolted right up to the 280 adapter.
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  #68  
Old 08-08-2010, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
I assumed they were both the same. The guy that I got my 280 from bought it for the 5 speed. He put in a 240 4 speed and had the prop shaft lengthened. I assume he used the trans from the 240 and it bolted right up to the 280 adapter.
The 280 adapter plate (X 110 XXX XX XX) is definitely different from the 220D/240D/300D adapter plate (X 115 XXX XX XX). It has a different part number, too. The mounting holes from the plate to the engine are identical, as are the two top, the two bottom, two of the side, and the starter holes.

The problem is the 5 speed has two mounting studs that won't allow the bellhousing to seat against the 617 adapter plate. The holes on the left side don't line up, either. It could be made to work by removing the studs on the transmission and not using bolts on the left side. But with the 280 adapter plate it fits perfectly in every way.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 343,000+ Miles
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  #69  
Old 08-08-2010, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
The 280 adapter plate (X 110 XXX XX XX) is definitely different from the 220D/240D/300D adapter plate (X 115 XXX XX XX). It has a different part number, too. The mounting holes from the plate to the engine are identical, as are the two top, the two bottom, two of the side, and the starter holes.

The problem is the 5 speed has two mounting studs that won't allow the bellhousing to seat against the 617 adapter plate. The holes on the left side don't line up, either. It could be made to work by removing the studs on the transmission and not using bolts on the left side. But with the 280 adapter plate it fits perfectly in every way.
Is it possible that the 240 4 spd bell is different than the 280 5 spd?
If that is the case, the guy I got the 280 from must have changed the adapter as well. Can the adapter be removed without removing the flywheel? If so, then he probably kept the 280 adapter with the 5 spd. I thought he only changed the trans and not the flywheel or adapter, and that is why I assumed they were the same.
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  #70  
Old 08-09-2010, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
Is it possible that the 240 4 spd bell is different than the 280 5 spd?
If that is the case, the guy I got the 280 from must have changed the adapter as well. Can the adapter be removed without removing the flywheel? If so, then he probably kept the 280 adapter with the 5 spd. I thought he only changed the trans and not the flywheel or adapter, and that is why I assumed they were the same.
Yeah, the bellhousings are different. Most of the bolts (not all) line up and the 280 5 speed has extra studs that need holes that the 240/617 etc. plate doesn't have. The flywheel needs to be removed before the adapter plate comes off.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 343,000+ Miles
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  #71  
Old 08-09-2010, 01:42 AM
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trilobe?

trilobite?

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  #72  
Old 08-09-2010, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
The tranny on that car has the starter on the drivers side lest anyone think it can be used on a 615/616/617 application, it has a 102 gas engine same as a 190E 2.3.

Drive shaft might be usable as it's bound to be longer than most, although the trilobe at the end is sized different than the one the 717.400 it needs to mate to.

ah good to know, I thought all w123 had the starter on the same side regardless of engine.

I swapped the trilobe on my w126 rear to fit my w123 driveshaft, they all seem to be interchangable so easy to swap. My donor trilobe for the w126 rear came from tail of an auto trans.
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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)
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  #73  
Old 08-09-2010, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
Yeah, the bellhousings are different. Most of the bolts (not all) line up and the 280 5 speed has extra studs that need holes that the 240/617 etc. plate doesn't have. The flywheel needs to be removed before the adapter plate comes off.
I just talked with the guy that took the 5 spd out and put a 4 spd in the 280 that I have. He said that he left the adapter, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate in the car and just bolted up the 4 spd (the two upper bolts were a pain) and exchanged the shifter, and lengthened the driveshaft. That's it. Maybe the 4 spd he put in was different? I don't know. He also put a 617 in a gas G wagon without any special adapter. It bolted right up to the trans.
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  #74  
Old 08-09-2010, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
I just talked with the guy that took the 5 spd out and put a 4 spd in the 280 that I have. He said that he left the adapter, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate in the car and just bolted up the 4 spd (the two upper bolts were a pain) and exchanged the shifter, and lengthened the driveshaft. That's it. Maybe the 4 spd he put in was different? I don't know. He also put a 617 in a gas G wagon without any special adapter. It bolted right up to the trans.
I don't think there would be any difficulty bolting a 4 speed to a car that used to have a 5 speed. The only difference would be the a couple of mounting holes on the left side would be different so you would use one or two less bolts overall. I would post pictures but I have the transmission bolted to the 617 engine and don't want to pull it off just yet.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 343,000+ Miles
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  #75  
Old 08-10-2010, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
I don't think there would be any difficulty bolting a 4 speed to a car that used to have a 5 speed. The only difference would be the a couple of mounting holes on the left side would be different so you would use one or two less bolts overall. I would post pictures but I have the transmission bolted to the 617 engine and don't want to pull it off just yet.
This is all very interesting to me. Maybe I should try to get a look at my mounting holes to see whats up. It could be that when my friend goes to use the 5 spd in another car, he may wish he had taken the adapter plate from the 280.
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