Glow plugs: OM603.96 vs. OM603.97? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jeremy5848 · #1 08-17-2010, 12:58 PM

Last night I brought home Sixto's #20 head, which is destined to replace the #14 head-with-bad guides/seals on my 1987 300D Turbo (W124, OM603.96). Sixto tells me that the #20 head, which came from a 300SD (W140, OM603.97), although he thinks that it was not the original head, takes a slightly different glow plug than the #14 head.

EPC shows that my existing OM603.96 engine with its #14 head takes either a 000 159 81 01 or 000 159 83 01 glow plug. The OM603.97 engine uses either a 001 159 17 01 or 001 159 36 01 glow plug.

Anyone know if my existing #14 head glow plugs will work in the #20 head or are new ones required? [Yes, I should get new ones anyway. The question is, are the two types compatible?]

Jeremy

bobodaclown · #2 08-17-2010, 02:28 PM

Pulled this info from Bosch glow plug manual:
http://www.bosch.co.nz/content/language1/downloads/Bosch_Glow_Plug_Web_Ready.pdf

The first 2 part numbers you list = Bosch Part # 0 250 201 039

The 2nd set = Bosch Part #0 250 201 041

The difference is the combustion chamber length the 039 is 2mm longer.

pg 52 of the link list the plug lengths.
pg 82 of the ling list the cross reference numbers.

Hope that helps.

Jeremy5848 · #3 08-17-2010, 06:05 PM

Thank you. It may be that the older (shorter) glow plug will work in the later head but the later (longer) glow plug won't fit in the older head because the later glow plug is 2 mm longer. Sixto suspected as much to me yesterday so I'm happy to have the confirmation as well as the Bosch link.

[edit] The above is backwards; I mis-read the information in the previous post.

It appears that the #14 head uses a longer glow plug than the #20 so I may have no choice but to get new plugs.

[end edit]

Hmmm . . . can't find the W124 300D OM603 in that catalog which, it seems, is for the Australian market.

Hit Man X · #4 08-17-2010, 06:34 PM

Interesting, I was under the assumption it had something to do with the after glow ready plugs.

Jeremy5848 · #5 08-17-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hit Man X

Interesting, I was under the assumption it had something to do with the after glow ready plugs.

Honored Sir:

I would be delighted to have you be right.
(a) The later-model, after-glow-rated plugs (80031) are more expensive;
(b) My home-made after-glow system (30 seconds max) has not affected "standard" (80006) plug life so far (almost 2 years/15,000 miles);
(c) I have two new standard glow plugs on the shelf so I'd only have to buy 4 more to have a complete new set for Sixto's #20 head.

Jeremy

compu_85 · #6 08-17-2010, 09:19 PM

I figured it was due to the different angle of the prechambers

-Jason

babymog · #7 08-17-2010, 10:04 PM

The different angle changes the optimum length.

I read somewhere that the afterglow affects the plug, some are and some are not rated for the afterglow.

However, I also pulled my Bosch glow-plugs tonight, 4 of 6 failed in less than a year, no reason why, I'm re-installing the still working BERU plugs that I pulled a while ago, ... they lasted. I will NOT buy Bosch glow-plugs again.

glenlloyd · #8 08-18-2010, 02:05 AM

I learned a long time ago from doing research on my Datsun diesel Maxima wagon (now sold) that GP's from one maker are not exactly the same as those from another...however, it never hurts to look at the info to see if it adds anything to the discussion.

While I can no longer find my Beru pdf file I can still get to the Delphi GP pdf from 2006 and it has the following to add:

From the prior posters we have this:
000 159 83 01 = 0 250 201 039 (MB to Bosch)

001 159 36 01 = 0 250 201 041 (MB to Bosch)

This is what Delphi says about it:

MB Delphi
001 159 83 01 = HDS216 no Delphi plug specs

Bosch Delphi V1 V2 A L1 L2
0 250 201 039 = HDS348 12 11 16 71.5 24.3

MB Delphi
001 159 36 01 = NA

Bosch Delphi
0 250 201 041 = HDS352 12 11.5 19 70 22.3

V1 = system voltage
V2 = marked voltage on plug
A = current at working temperature
L1 = plug length
L2 = probe length

I don't know if this adds to the discussion or not but I didn't take time to look up the info on the other MB numbers that were listed in the first post. The info should be considered, but because we don't have the same info for the MB originals it's hard to know whether the Delphi specs are really the same as the MB ones. Also, the Delphi catalog lists the HDS377 for the 300DT versus the cross-ref that lists the HDS348 as the correct plug. I use the info with a grain of salt.

You'll have to figure out the spacing, the system collapses spaces so i couldn't separate the data easily.

steve a

Jeremy5848 · #9 11-20-2010, 01:13 AM

My new glow plugs arrived today so I compared them with the old ones. The picture shows an 80006 glow plug (71 mm long, older heads, straight prechambers) next to an 80031 (69 mm long, newer heads, angled prechambers). Both are Bosch, made in France, brand new. No specific indication that the 80031 is after-glow rated but I sure hope so, given the 50% greater price of the 80031.

One difference: the voltage rating stamped into the glow plug.
80006 marked 11V
80031 marked 11.5V

Jeremy

babymog · #10 11-20-2010, 09:29 PM

The higher voltage probably necessary for glowing when the alternator is charging.

biopete · #11 11-20-2010, 10:39 PM

The bosch 039 are rated for afterglow. I replaced all my glow plugs in the 93 2.5 T with the angled prechambers. Since i had a set of 039 i used those. The ones i took out were the 041. Haven't had any issues for 5,000 miles or so. I think anything with that shaped tip is rated for afterglow. Any of old style tip , no narrowing at the end , are not.

Jeremy5848 · #12 11-21-2010, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biopete

The bosch 039 are rated for afterglow. I replaced all my glow plugs in the 93 2.5 T with the angled prechambers. Since i had a set of 039 i used those. The ones i took out were the 041. Haven't had any issues for 5,000 miles or so. I think anything with that shaped tip is rated for afterglow. Any of old style tip , no narrowing at the end , are not.

I am therefore confused.

The 80006 glow plug is Bosch 0 250 201 039, with a narrowed tip, rated at 11 Volts. It is used in the early OM603 heads with straight injectors. These engines typically do not have afterglow.

The 80031 glow plug is Bosch 0 250 201 041, with a narrowed tip, rated at 11.5 Volts. [Babymog, that's a good point about needing a higher voltage rating for afterglow because the alternator will be working, raising the system voltage.] This glow plug is used in later OM603 heads with angled injectors. These engines probably date from the time afterglow was introduced.

Since both of these glow plugs have narrowed tips, I'm not sure that is how you tell after-glow from non-after-glow. I no longer have an OM617 glow plug around for comparison.

I have had a home-made afterglow setup [maximum 30 seconds] in my '87 300D Turbo (W124, OM603, #14 head) for two years and 15,000 miles. The #4 glow plug (Bosch 0 250 201 039 or "80006") failed a month after I installed the mod but it was not a new glow plug at the time and none have failed since.

Jeremy

Hit Man X · #13 11-21-2010, 12:59 AM

I installed some more 80006s around this time last year when I had three dead ones in my SDL. I have had afterglow on it for years, I am going to venture to guess three or four years easily.

Anyone with a factory afterglow car with angled 'chambers have an approximate lifespan of your glowplugs?

Come to think of it, I am pretty certain 80006s came with my factory Bosch afterglow kit for my 617 I installed over then summer when I did injectors.

compu_85 · #14 11-21-2010, 01:45 AM

My TDI has a very long after glow, sometimes lasting over 5 minutes at full voltage. When I replaced the plugs last winter they had 150,000 miles on them and they all still got hot.

I assume the ones on my SDL are original, and have 56,000 miles on them. The afterglow on that car lasts just a short time, I think 45 seconds is the maximum under extremely cold conditions?

biopete · #15 11-22-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compu_85

My TDI has a very long after glow, sometimes lasting over 5 minutes at full voltage. When I replaced the plugs last winter they had 150,000 miles on them and they all still got hot.

I assume the ones on my SDL are original, and have 56,000 miles on them. The afterglow on that car lasts just a short time, I think 45 seconds is the maximum under extremely cold conditions?

Were those Beru or Bosch plugs?