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  #1  
Old 08-22-2010, 11:15 PM
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Who has rebuilt their turbo in situ?

Specifically on a 617 engine, and specifically using a kit like DG sells?

They had sent an ad email in the past, showing that part of the turbo could be removed with the rest on the car, and replace a few bushings and seals to make it back to pretty good shape.

Curious if anyone has done this sort of thing... how tough it was, what you encountered trouble-wise, etc.

Thanks!

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Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #2  
Old 08-22-2010, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
Specifically on a 617 engine, and specifically using a kit like DG sells?

They had sent an ad email in the past, showing that part of the turbo could be removed with the rest on the car, and replace a few bushings and seals to make it back to pretty good shape.

Curious if anyone has done this sort of thing... how tough it was, what you encountered trouble-wise, etc.

Thanks!
I would look in our DIY section for some who have put new Seals and Bearings in their Turbos (note that doing so is not actually a rebuild). Also there are several articles on other sites concerning the same. I ruined my good Computer and I cannot give you those sites, as the computer I am using has no USB Ports for me to get at the sites from my other drive.
Also I think you will find less expensive sources for the Turbo Bearing and Seal Kits.

Having rebuilt Turbochargers as part of my job I can say that the Blots that hold on the Exhaust Turbine Housing are often seized into the Bearing Housing. Even with all the tricks my Boss taught me to remove them they still break off sometimes.

At that point it is better to have the Turbo on a work Bench.

With the above issue and the fact that by the time you have removed all of the stuff you need to; to try to fix the turbo on the Engine you only have to remove the Oil Inlet, Oil Drain tubes and the 4 Blots holding the Turbo on. So it is not much more work to do that.

Also with the Turbo off of the Vehicle you get to clean the parts better.
My own opinion is that Diesel Giant is more concerned with sales than the results or he would not recommend such a 1/2 a**ed procedure.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
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  #3  
Old 08-23-2010, 10:58 AM
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Thanks, good to know. I saw a video and kit from kent up in WA state, and it made it to be strightforward, but that is of cource because they are selling a kit!

I think i see a little bit of oil residue around my wastegate hose, so I want to be sure I take good care of the turbo on my 82...

I also want to get a boost gauge on and make sure Im making my 11.8psi or whatever is the correct number... But that is easy when I have time...
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #4  
Old 08-23-2010, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
Thanks, good to know. I saw a video and kit from kent up in WA state, and it made it to be strightforward, but that is of cource because they are selling a kit!

I think i see a little bit of oil residue around my wastegate hose, so I want to be sure I take good care of the turbo on my 82...

I also want to get a boost gauge on and make sure Im making my 11.8psi or whatever is the correct number... But that is easy when I have time...
Part of the Oil issues on the compressor side of the Turbo is from Blow-By going into the air intake system.
Also a Plugged Air Filter can cause Oil to be pulled past the Turbo Seal on the Compressor side as can a restricted Turbo Oil Drain Tube.

If you look at Diesel Giant's (Transmission) B2 Piston replacement it looks easy. But, the Vehicle he used is not a 123.
I don't remember if it is a 124 or a 126 but there is a lot of room on the other chassie to change it.
Compare Diesel Giant's write up to a write up of a 123 in our DIY section.

You are doing the best thing by looking at different sources of Information.
I have read a few of the do-it-yourself turbo rebuilds on other sites and in one of them the guy did not use a Torque Wrench to tighten the turbo Shaft Nut (but he had great pics); some give a single torque spec.; 2 others gove a torque spec and after that you advance the nut X amout of degrees.
I still cannot find a crediable source of what the Shaft Nut is actually Torqued to.
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  #5  
Old 08-27-2010, 09:33 PM
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OK, reviving this one again...

I did an oil change tonight and looked around a bit. Turbo is super-clean, like most of the engine (garaged CA car), except right at the turbo opening, where the U-tube connects. That is very oily.

The wastegate assembly has lots of oil on it, and the wastegate tube, which is not the original silicone hose, BTW, is pretty oily too, in the vicinity of where it connects to the wastegate. The rest looks like new.

Now, I tried to check blowby a bit. We had the car running and I pulled the oil filler cap to take a look. While there was some oil mist (I know it was that because of the characteristic smell of the aerosol - it did not smell at all like exhaust), there was next to no flow out of the oil filler cap. I could place the cap on the opening and it would sit there, only shifting due to vibrations in the engine.

So I believe that it is not blowby.

The oil filter (granted it is a Fram, not a Mann) looks very clean. There is no real sign of oil on the pleats, though there is a bit of oil residue on the underside).

The turbo is the only point of oil leakage on my engine. It is slow enough that over 3000 miles I will not see any change on the dipstick, yet it is enough to form drips in a number of spots.

SO do you think my turbo has a seal issue?

Thanks!
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2010, 04:44 PM
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Posts: 5,265
Any suggestions re my findings?
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #7  
Old 08-31-2010, 05:19 PM
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Find something else to worry about.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #8  
Old 08-31-2010, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Find something else to worry about.
double ditto

if that shaft isn't excessively wobbly, leave the turbo alone. Especially if you aren't even interested in removing it from the car.

Try an air/oil separator arrangement on the crankcase vent before you jump to this conclusion.
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  #9  
Old 08-31-2010, 09:56 PM
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I would not expect Oil to come from inside of the Tubo and get into the U-tube since that would be against the flow of the incoming Air.
Pull the U-tube off and get a white Paper Towel and wipe inside of the upper part of the U-tube; see if it is oily there also. If so that Oil is not coming from the Turbo.

Blow-by and idle may not be the same a Blow-by at higher speeds.
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  #10  
Old 08-31-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I would not expect Oil to come from inside of the Tubo and get into the U-tube since that would be against the flow of the incoming Air.

oil pressure could reach almost 100psi at times.... air would not be over 14psi max...

its quite possible for oil to squirt into the compressor housing.
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  #11  
Old 09-01-2010, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
its quite possible for oil to squirt into the compressor housing.
No it isn't. There is no pressurized oil at either end of a turbo's shaft.
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  #12  
Old 09-01-2010, 01:11 PM
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perhaps I worded that poorly, but I did not mean that pressurized oil was 'squirting' into the compressor housing.

When the bearings or shaft become worn, oil finds it way into the compressor housing because of the force with which it is delivered into the bearing case.

AS the OP said, oil was in his wastegate tube, this implies oil is getting into the compressor housing.

Cleaning the intake tube, as suggested, then running the car to find out how dirty it has become, is a good test for whether this is blowby or a bad seal.
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  #13  
Old 09-01-2010, 01:51 PM
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The point I was trying to make is that Oil in the Top of the U-tube; where it comes off of the Air Filter is not coming from the Turbocharter.

Also ounce Oil goes past the Bearings the Pressure drops fast because there is an empty cavity inside of the Bearing Housing.

All the Turbochargers I rebuilt on the Job with the exception of the Geleral Electric ones used on large Diesel Gen sets have had Piston Ring Type seals.

The Piston Ring Seal itself wears on the narrow sides of the Ring as does the Groove on the Turbine Shaft and the groove on the little Thrust Spacer (some have spiral grooves to throw/sling the oil away from the Seal).
And, on the Compressor Side I have seen the bores where the Thrust Spacer goes in wear in the area where the Piston Ring tye seal rides.

Wear on the Rings and Grooves are something never mentioned in the DIY Turborebuild threads.

And, it does matter. Were I worked we got a spat of returns on Turbos we had rebuilt. It turned out all of them had the Ring Grooves on the Turbine worn beyond spec.
I had been trained on the job and the Guy I worked for never checked that or had spec on the grooves.
He had hired a Shop Manager and that Guy got us the specs we needed and I made a little Plug Gauge to check the width of the Piston Ring Seal Grooves.

Note: There are places you can send the Turbine and the build up the metal and restore the groove dimensions.

There is also ground undersized Turbing Shafts and oversized Bearing Bores out there also.

Since the Thrust Sacer is the part that has the Ring Groove on the Compressor side it is not expensive and replacable. The Thrust Plate with the bore the Thrust Spacer rides in is replaceable but a little expensive.
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  #14  
Old 09-01-2010, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillig View Post
No it isn't. There is no pressurized oil at either end of a turbo's shaft.
There is a yes and a no to that.

On the Exhaust side there is a space between the Bearing Journal ara and the bore where the Turbing Shaft seals but Oil dose spray all over that area and is infact what helps cool it.
If you look inside of the Bearing housing on that side if the Turbo you will find a lot of Carbon Buildup from the burnt Oil. At, least you do on other Garrett Turbos that are constructed the same way.
On the Compressor side due to the way the Thrust Piece is made the Oil is still spraying around inside of there but it is not as close to the Seal.

Certainly the Oil pressure is less after it passes through the bearing areas into a open area.

I have yet to see one of the Turbos with the Carbon Type Seal so I cannot comment on them.
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  #15  
Old 09-02-2010, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
AS the OP said, oil was in his wastegate tube, this implies oil is getting into the compressor housing.
Thats mainly due to the crankcase vent gases. The separator in the filter housing isn't very good, though its better than nothing.

Quote:
There is a yes and a no to that.
Oil spraying on the seal is not a pressurized source. Any worn seal can leak, every leaking front/rear crankshaft seal is testament to that.

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