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-   -   A subframe question (just the beginning ...) (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/284067-subframe-question-just-beginning.html)

BodhiBenz1987 11-13-2010 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob (Post 2585833)
I can't imagine that any drop can damage an axle, and I couldn't see anything in the picture. Are you talking about the CV joint boot or some part of the axle itself?

You can use dollies if you've got them or you can also put a wheel back on each hub and roll it out like that if you've got the rear end up high enough.

It's really weird ... it's under the CV boot, where there's a big crack ... it's just this large bump under the boot. I'm pretty wiped out so maybe I'm just losing it, but shouldn't the area under the CV joint be fairly ... round? It really didn't seem like a "drop" that would damage anything ... surely the car has seen MUCH worse on the road in terms of impact! Since I have to take them off anyway, surely I'll find out more.:o
I don't think the rear is quite high enough to roll it out on the wheels ... too bad I don't have a couple junk rims, that'd be pretty easy. I'll try the wheels though, it's possible it might fit.

BodhiBenz1987 11-13-2010 11:29 PM

What I know everyone wants ... pictures. Yes I know it's gross ... that's why I'm replacing it.:P

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2400426_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2544905_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6876174_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._8100692_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5581696_n.jpg

layback40 11-14-2010 03:16 AM

You have some rust treatment to do before it goes back together! Looks like you are getting there.
Is there a pic of the cv problem? Could have been hit by a rock a long time ago.

Edit, just saw pic on previous page.

BodhiBenz1987 11-14-2010 05:55 PM

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._8132470_n.jpg
:D I bought a set of those dollies made for moving cars around on their wheels. The frame balances perfectly on it and is really easy to move around! Obviously to remove the wheel carriers I'll need to support it elsewhere, but right now I'm focusing on cleaning up the rust situation on the underside of the car.:( Most of it is just surfaces stuff which I'm sanding off and will POR15 over. But one of the front posts is really, really bad. Or at least the area under it. I'm going to clean it up with my dremel and probably fill in the holes with POR Putty then paint it. The part underneath it, I'm going to try to have a body guy look at when I get everything back together. It's actually part of the rocker, which I think I'll have professionally replaced as a big Christmas gift to myself. Other than that, though, looks pretty good. The bright side of having diff oil flung all over is that most of the undercarraige is rustproofed.:cool:
Here is a close pic of the axle. It appears the "lump" is part of the axle's end, where the boot attaches ... it turns fine, nothing loose or clunky. Odd.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5279092_n.jpg

layback40 11-14-2010 08:28 PM

My guess is that joint has taken a hit a long time ago. Probably a bit of road junk. Or some idiot tried to leaver the axle on there. That boot is just about cracked all the way through.

I would not get under your car while on those supports. In work shops they are often known as 'widow makers'. They are not stable enough. if you pushed the car forward or side ways, it looks like it would fall.
Please get your 2 ramps, place a block of wood on each of them & put them under the car. Even if the car is not resting on them, at least if it were to topple over with you under it, you would have the height of the ramp as safe space. Bruised but not squashed!!
It looks like you are doing a great job !!
Good Luck !

vstech 11-14-2010 09:49 PM

I gotta agree. those style jack stands are pure junk.
you need the square welded style with cast iron lifts.
I like the 6 ton models. they are wide enough to handle the face of the unibody frame without damage, and they fit well in the nooks and crannies of the car's structure. also the square frame is MUCH sturdier!
at a minimum, I would store the tires under the frame of the body to catch the car if something tips. even better is to put the tires under, then wedge some 2x6's into the space.
keep up the good work! and keep pics coming!
I don't see the damage on the axle, but what I do see is the boot and can damage on your axles from age and rust.
I'd certainly remove the boots, and wire brush all the rust off the cans and por-15 it! then reboot with new Flexx boots and some fresh gear oil in the cans!

vstech 11-14-2010 09:52 PM

oh. by the by...
I have twins of each of your cars!
a white 87 300D, and a white 84 euro 240 5speed! good taste! those cars look GOOD in your garage!

oh, and a very nice garage too! it looks like you could park 4 in there, or at least three with one sideways in front of the cars!

BodhiBenz1987 11-14-2010 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40 (Post 2586394)
My guess is that joint has taken a hit a long time ago. Probably a bit of road junk. Or some idiot tried to leaver the axle on there. That boot is just about cracked all the way through.

I would not get under your car while on those supports. In work shops they are often known as 'widow makers'. They are not stable enough. if you pushed the car forward or side ways, it looks like it would fall.
Please get your 2 ramps, place a block of wood on each of them & put them under the car. Even if the car is not resting on them, at least if it were to topple over with you under it, you would have the height of the ramp as safe space. Bruised but not squashed!!
It looks like you are doing a great job !!
Good Luck !

Thanks, I'll throw the ramps back under it. I did have them under there the whole time before I rolled the frame out, just FYI.:) Rght now I'm working in the wheel well, but nonetheless don't want the car to fall on the floor so I'll replace the ramps. I do have the wheels on their side under the rocker panels in front of the jackstands, as well as six jackstands, but probably should move the wheels farther back.

BodhiBenz1987 11-14-2010 11:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
What about this type of jackstand? These are the kind I have mainly supporting the car. I also have another set with four legs but looks like a steels top that are positioned in spots under the frame. The three-footed ones were just some I grabbed from my dad's shop as extras, i was using them to support the subframe's front while I maneuvered it down. I moved the wheels farther back under the frame and added the ramps back under there.:)

vstech 11-15-2010 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 (Post 2586542)
What about this type of jackstand? These are the kind I have mainly supporting the car. I also have another set with four legs but looks like a steels top that are positioned in spots under the frame. The three-footed ones were just some I grabbed from my dad's shop as extras, i was using them to support the subframe's front while I maneuvered it down. I moved the wheels farther back under the frame and added the ramps back under there.:)

yup. that's the kind I like. the 6 ton units are a bit beefyier but the 3 tonners' are MUCH Better than those 1.5 jobs with the skinny tin feet.
cool.
safety is prime when doing this much work on a car. and if you have the front tires on the ground, be sure and have solid rubber chocks under them front and back!

layback40 11-15-2010 05:12 AM

Could you grab the back of the car & push it any way & have it fall off the stands? When you are under there wrenching, thats what you are doing.
I was once told that the width of the base of the stand needs to be at least 75% of the lifted height. That way it is stable.
Those ramps of yours even if rolled over by an earth quake would not let the car fall further.
Sorry if I sound like a PITA, I would feel like a real PR#CK if I saw something like that & didnt say anything, only later to hear it had toppled over.
Now if you had a good strong roof frame above the back of the car, you could have it hung up on a couple of chains with padding to protect the back. Then you could have clear space under there. :D

Fulcrum525 11-15-2010 10:13 AM

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2...1114210721.jpg


We have both sets like you have and the one of the left scares me so I don't use it. We have a pair of them and I swear that any movement on the thing causes the jack to lower itself.

I prefer the jack on the right that uses a proper pin. We have several different kinds and they never budge.

Glad to hear that you finally got the sub-frame out! It's always satisfying to accomplish something...especially when it's been such a PITA :)

vstech 11-15-2010 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum525 (Post 2586717)
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2...1114210721.jpg


We have both sets like you have and the one of the left scares me so I don't use it. We have a pair of them and I swear that any movement on the thing causes the jack to lower itself.

I prefer the jack on the right that uses a proper pin. We have several different kinds and they never budge.

Glad to hear that you finally got the sub-frame out! It's always satisfying to accomplish something...especially when it's been such a PITA :)

... if you have the cast lever holding the rod in position, with weight on it, there is no way for it to allow the car to lower... if yours wiggle, they are damaged, or installed backwards...

Fulcrum525 11-15-2010 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech (Post 2586742)
... if you have the cast lever holding the rod in position, with weight on it, there is no way for it to allow the car to lower... if yours wiggle, they are damaged, or installed backwards...


I've never tested them with weight and will only use them if the car is low enough so that if it does fall it only has an inch to fall onto the stands lowest setting. I just don't trust them so I use the pin jacks. We use the stands as the secondary safety measure, not the first.


(Also only once did we have the car supported on something other than the jack and in that case it was just the rear wheels which were being held up with another set of wheels)

BodhiBenz1987 11-18-2010 01:45 AM

New question: I order new outer boots for the axles, but from what I gather in the FSM, you have to change the inner boots to get to the outer ones? Am I reading that wrong? The inner boots really don't look as bad, and the metal onto which they attach looks pretty clean too (probably because it was covered in oil from the diff over the years). The replacement kits are pretty expensive to replace something that doesn't look like it's got a problem. The outer ones look a bit cracked (and the one has that deep crack) and rusty underneath so I definitely want to change them ... do I need to do all four or will the boot come off the outer end?


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