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  #91  
Old 11-28-2010, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 View Post
Ahhhhhhh it never ends ... now I noticed one of the hubs is "loose," as in I can grab the rotor and wiggle it quite a bit. I may have caused it myself because I was trying to knock the rotor off with a rubber mallet (not with titanic swings or anything though). This was the same side that the funny axle boot came off, so maybe that wheel was involved in some incident. I'll do some research. Maybe it's a bearing thing. Whatever it is, it's one more thing I don't know anything about to address before I can get my car on the road again. I think I'm taking longer on this project than most people take restoring whole cars. On the bright side I'm certainly learning a lot. This is like graduate school.
Other than that, I did get the differential off the frame (a little bit of progress), so it's sitting on a scissor jack and block of wood where I can clean it up. I also got the other axle out ... it had some rust-dust on the splines and no grease, whereas the other one had some grease and is rust-free. Will clean that up when I clean up the axles, which I didn't get to tonight. Had late T-giving meal with the family which was great but I didn't get much time to work.
I also got a few bolts loose connecting the arms to the hub, but kind of stuck because I can't get the rotor off, so I can't get to the dust shield, which I need to turn or remove. I just ran out of energy and gave up for the night.
I'll do a search on rear wheel bearings, but if anyone has any advice on the wobbly rear hub ...
If there is play in the hub the bearing is toast, it is an interference fit and it rock solid normally. The good thing is that with the wheel carrier separated from the linkage and off the subframe just about any competent shop can R&R the bearing. If it was still connected it takes a special tool to R&R it in situ. Bearing is about $60 last time I bought one.

With regard to your earlier questions regarding the axles, you can clean and pretty the cans won't hurt! Some folks claim that synthetic diff oil is a proper replacement I have not seen any evidence that it is in any way equal to or better than the MB specified grease #A 001 989 05 51 Ringgelenkfett Grease for rear axle shaft 150g tube. The grease that MB specifies is of much higher viscosity than diff oil, the theory that diff oil will some how not be slung away from the rotating parts by centrifugal force easier than higher viscosity grease is counter intuitive. The best evidence is that MB spec'd grease is used in MB axles installed from the factory and often last for 200,000+ miles.

As far as cleaning the axle parts, whatever solvent dissolves the axle grease is the one to use; I use gasoline because it's the least expensive.

I don’t think there is a thread about 124/201/129 axles so the concerns people express are unrelated; it is extremely easy for these axles!

The grease fill is 120 g per joint, after cleaning and partial assembly fill/pack the ball/cage/spider with as much grease as you can, move things around a little to distribute the grease, squeeze the remaining balance of the 120 g into the wide end of the boot. Just like bearing grease when driving friction will heat the grease lowering it's viscosity and distribute it within the jointJust try not to get grease on the boot’s lip which will contact the lip on the can you want the rubber boot interior and the metal can exterior in the areas that will be under the metal band grease free, if not sometimes when you attempt to tighten the band the boot will slid off the can. If it’s clean that won’t happen.

If you have one disk stuck in place you should first check that the E-brake cable is not seized, and you also might need to back off the star adjuster to move the pads inward enough to clear the disk ID. If the cable is seized usually you’ll need to hammer the disk off until it’s free or the e-Brake pads come apart or the mount springs break.

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  #92  
Old 11-28-2010, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
If there is play in the hub the bearing is toast, it is an interference fit and it rock solid normally. The good thing is that with the wheel carrier separated from the linkage and off the subframe just about any competent shop can R&R the bearing. If it was still connected it takes a special tool to R&R it in situ. Bearing is about $60 last time I bought one.
Should I replace them both on principle, or just the wobbly one? Since I have a shop press could I just push it out and in myself or does it still have to be done at a shop? I'm sure my indy would do it, although I'm kind of embarrassed to try to explain the mayhem that is my project.
I was just looking at the wheel bearing DIY and remembered the parking brake. I didn't even think to check and see if that was stuck.
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  #93  
Old 11-28-2010, 02:34 AM
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I'd do both of the wheel bearings while you have it all out. You would hate it if the other one failed after you did all this work....
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  #94  
Old 11-28-2010, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 View Post
Should I replace them both on principle, or just the wobbly one? Since I have a shop press could I just push it out and in myself or does it still have to be done at a shop? I'm sure my indy would do it, although I'm kind of embarrassed to try to explain the mayhem that is my project.
I was just looking at the wheel bearing DIY and remembered the parking brake. I didn't even think to check and see if that was stuck.
It will never be easier than with the wheel carriers off the car without the necessary tool (SIR Tools B90-M $300), so it's an investment against future more costly repairs!

It is a little more complicated than just pressing things together! You need some cylindrical spacers to accomplish the job without destroying the new bearing in the process! Basically once the hub is separated from the wheel carrier and the old bearing remnants removed from both parts, the bearing is pressed using its outer shell into the wheel carrier, then the bearings inner diameter bore has to be supported as the hub is pressed into it. If the support is not correct the bearing is pushed apart.

If your indy can do it for a reasonable price that would be the way to go, otherwise you're going to have to find or fab something to fit the bearing if you don't have something like that already.

To make use of your press though you can once you get the disks off and the wheel carriers off use it to press the hubs out of the wheel carriers, then the bearings remnants out of the wheel carrier (there is a large C-Clip that needs to be removed before the outer shell gets pressed out). After the hub is free you will need a grinder to cut the part of the bearing that usually stays stuck to the hub when the bearing comes apart. Use the grinder to cut almost through and then a hammer and chisel to crack it off.
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  #95  
Old 11-28-2010, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
It will never be easier than with the wheel carriers off the car without the necessary tool (SIR Tools B90-M $300), so it's an investment against future more costly repairs!

It is a little more complicated than just pressing things together! You need some cylindrical spacers to accomplish the job without destroying the new bearing in the process! Basically once the hub is separated from the wheel carrier and the old bearing remnants removed from both parts, the bearing is pressed using its outer shell into the wheel carrier, then the bearings inner diameter bore has to be supported as the hub is pressed into it. If the support is not correct the bearing is pushed apart.

If your indy can do it for a reasonable price that would be the way to go, otherwise you're going to have to find or fab something to fit the bearing if you don't have something like that already.

To make use of your press though you can once you get the disks off and the wheel carriers off use it to press the hubs out of the wheel carriers, then the bearings remnants out of the wheel carrier (there is a large C-Clip that needs to be removed before the outer shell gets pressed out). After the hub is free you will need a grinder to cut the part of the bearing that usually stays stuck to the hub when the bearing comes apart. Use the grinder to cut almost through and then a hammer and chisel to crack it off.
Oh OK, that makes sense. I'll see if my indy can fit me in next week. Assuming I can get the wheel carriers off by then! He has been really good about labor prices in the past so hopefully it won't be too bad.
Thanks guys. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have a more upbeat progress report. At least now I think I have a better grasp of the axle job.
Or maybe I'll take a break to tidy up a little ... I basically just have tools, cans, bolts everywhere.
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1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
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  #96  
Old 11-28-2010, 04:10 PM
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For resealing the outer CV joint, I haven't been able to find Loctite 574 ... AutoZone told me red threadlocker would work, but it doesn't say it's a suitable replacement for 574 so I'm hesitant to use it. Pep Boys just said they had no idea. Am I right that 574 is not the same thing as red threadlocker? NAPA is closed today; they usually have a better selection of things like that.
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #97  
Old 11-28-2010, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 View Post
For resealing the outer CV joint, I haven't been able to find Loctite 574 ... AutoZone told me red threadlocker would work, but it doesn't say it's a suitable replacement for 574 so I'm hesitant to use it. Pep Boys just said they had no idea. Am I right that 574 is not the same thing as red threadlocker? NAPA is closed today; they usually have a better selection of things like that.
Not sure where the 574 or thread locker would be used on the outer CV joint? I wouldn't use red thread locker until I was sure as it's pretty close to permanent. Where exactly do you think you need to use this substance? 574 is orange color so that may be why the AZ guys thought it was similar, but I'm pretty sure its thicker sort of like watery silicon sealant usually used to seal between mating surfaces as a kind of gasket material, I thought.
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  #98  
Old 11-28-2010, 06:25 PM
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Loctite 574

If I was doing all the work you are doing I'd use what the FSM or the directions say to use. After reading the information below I would not use loctite red in its place.

LOCTITE® 574™ seals close fitting joints between rigid metal
faces and flanges. The product cures when confined in the
absence of air between close fitting metal surfaces. Provides
resistance to low pressures immediately after assembly of
flanges. Typically used as a form-in-place gasket on rigid
flanged connections, e.g. gearbox and engine casings, etc.
The thixotropic nature of LOCTITE® 574™ reduces the
migration of liquid product after application to the substrate.

http://www.loctite.sg/sea/content_data/93789_574EN.pdf
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  #99  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
Not sure where the 574 or thread locker would be used on the outer CV joint? I wouldn't use red thread locker until I was sure as it's pretty close to permanent. Where exactly do you think you need to use this substance? 574 is orange color so that may be why the AZ guys thought it was similar, but I'm pretty sure its thicker sort of like watery silicon sealant usually used to seal between mating surfaces as a kind of gasket material, I thought.
It's supposed to go on the inside of the annular joint, between it and the backing plate ("cup seal cap") that the boot attaches to. I guess it's just an extra measure to hold it together, because that plate fits on pretty snug and is held on via the bolts. Nonetheless, the FSM says it so I'd just assume follow it. I'll definitely track down the 574. I'm hoping NAPA has it ... they weren't open today but will give them a call tomorrow.
I got the axles mostly apart. One of the CV joints slide off easily, I just used my fingers to pull it off. The other is stuck on pretty good; I tried gently tapping it off but didn't want to go to town on it. The FSM says to use split bearing shells and a special press that I can't quite figure out in the drawings. I'll think it over and see what I can do tomorrow.
Also, the FSM just says to remove the boot from the outer joint, but after doing that, there's no way to get to the joint to clean it. The FSM doesn't really say anything about cleaning that joint, either ... just to wipe up any grease that comes out and pack it into the joint, then put a new boot on it. What I'm wondering is, does the "cup seal cap" (i.e., the metal cover that the boot attaches to) come off the outer joint, too? Otherwise I can't really clean it. But I didn't want to knock apart the can irreparably if it's supposed to stay as one. My scanner doesn't work so I can't post the diagram in the FSM but I'll post some pictures after I clean up, eat and upload them.
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1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #100  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:32 AM
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Also, update on the subframe itself, I managed to get one end or another of all the arms off one wheel carrier. The rotor still will not come off. I don't think it's the parking brake because they can turn freely, and I can also wiggle the cable on each and feel the mechanism move. I also tried turning the star wheel and it didn't help the rotor budge. I think it's just rust. I squirted some Kroil on and left it. Guess I'll try a torch tomorrow? I'm about ready to just take the whole wheel with arms, rotor and the brake cable hanging off it to my indy and pay him to get all that junk off, plus do the wheel bearing.

Also, I'm adding a workbench to my Christmas wish list! I've been crouching on the floor all day and I feel like I've been hit by a bus!
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #101  
Old 11-29-2010, 06:52 PM
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Progress: Both rotors are off. A few seconds with the torch and they came off with a light tap. They look reasonable but maybe a little thin so I'm likely to replace them, too. Probably just from the dealer ... considering hitting NAPA instead though.
Speaking of NAPA, I went there and asked about the Loctite 574 and he looked it up, dug through a couple books and called Permatex. They told him what the equivalent was, and it is indeed not red threadlocker ... it's an anerobic gasket-maker that sounds exactly like the description bio300TDTdriver posted. I'll post the product number when I get a chance. I still don't really understand why there's a sealing compound between the joint and cover plate, seeing as it all ends up covered in grease ... but going by the book seems like a good idea.
As for the axles ... I think I'm just going to reboot the outers, while cleaning, repacking and rebooting the inners. The FSM doesn't describe cleaning the outers, and I think if I try I may just mess them up seeing as they're not removable and difficult to access. They look full of grease and the grease looks 'healthy,' and the boots, while beginning to crack, were no way near cracked through (even that one big crack wasn't through). Sound sensible? I will add some new grease to account for grease that came off in the old boot.
Still can't get the one inner joint off ... PITA ...
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #102  
Old 11-29-2010, 07:04 PM
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OK.
the anerobic sealer is needed because the parts mate together so tightly that silicone or standard sealants would never dry enough to seal, and would allow the oil to leak out.
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  #103  
Old 11-29-2010, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vstech View Post
OK.
the anerobic sealer is needed because the parts mate together so tightly that silicone or standard sealants would never dry enough to seal, and would allow the oil to leak out.
Oh, I understood why anerobic vs. regular, but wondering how to avoid getting grease in the sealant since it goes right on the joint surface ... guess I will just be careful to keep the mating surface clean. Obviously I wasn't planning on skipping it, I drove 20 miles to the NAPA to get the right stuff.
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #104  
Old 11-30-2010, 07:24 PM
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Loctite 574

Is Mercedes branded (Same.Same) # 001 989 89 20 10
(And you DO NOT want any Oil/Grease/Contaminants on the surface[s] the 574
is applied to!)

If (Heaven Forefend you ever have to) you ever R+R the Timing Cover,the
Loctite 574/MB # 001 989 89 20 10 will be used to seal the interface between
the Timing Cover and the Block/Head.
http://w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%20CD/W124/w124CD1/Program/Engine/602_603/01-8000hx.pdf
Attached Thumbnails
A subframe question (just the beginning ...)-screenhunter_07-nov.-30-18.33.jpg  
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  #105  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:30 AM
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Got the axles all done. A few hours after I finished the first one, and very carefully sealed it all up, I realized I'd left the circlip off ... ouch. But took that one all apart, put it together, and then did the second one ... remembering the circlip. What a slimy mess I made. I actually went through a whole roll of shop towels, as well as about five pairs of latex gloves. And I don't think I've ever gotten a pair of pants so dirty. But hopefully I did everything right, but guess I won't find out until everything's done and I take it on the highway.
Next up I need to figure out the parking brake, which I think I know how to do, but those springs are tough little boogers. I got all the linkage detached, but need to remove the shield to get the arms off. Then they go for new bearings. Then I can start putting things back together!

I'll post axle pictures later, though I didn't take many (see slimy mess comment). They looked pretty good, the only thing that concerned me were some small marks inside the outer cage. They weren't pits or scoring so much as smooth spots ... the FSM says the former is grounds for replacement, while the latter is OK. No marks anywhere else I could see. Hope I put them together right!

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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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